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Initial Report from CBC / Obama Meeting May 12

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Initial Report from CBC / Obama Meeting May 12 - Page 3 Empty Does this diminish the hope for HR589

Post by mrmarti Thu May 12, 2011 8:47 am

First topic message reminder :

http://www.crewof42.com/?p=5663


Does this mean the fight is over?
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Post by exhaustedandtired/1208 Fri May 13, 2011 10:47 am

We don't know what is next, if anything. I guess 589 just sits to die in committee unless something big happens. At least until we see what happens to the two extension killer bills!

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Post by exhaustedandtired/1208 Fri May 13, 2011 10:50 am


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Post by exhaustedandtired/1208 Fri May 13, 2011 10:53 am

Unfortunately statements "That ain't going to happen", Is just that a statement! From the previous posted link with the crewof42 link.
http://www.crewof42.com/?p=5663

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Post by Guest Fri May 13, 2011 11:08 am

exhaustedandtired/1208 wrote:We don't know what is next, if anything. I guess 589 just sits to die in committee unless something big happens. At least until we see what happens to the two extension killer bills!

I don't think it will die in committee. Throughout this whole thing, going back about a year and a half, we have seen the GOP hold legislation hostage until they get what they want. Now that the W & M Committee has allowed HR 1745 to be sent to the House, I think we may see some movement on HR 589. Camp and his co-sponsors know this bill doesn't have a prayer in the Senate and if it ever reached the President's desk it would be vetoed.

IMO, it will be compromise and attach. If that doesn't happen, neither bill will ever be signed into law.

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Post by carl98430 Fri May 13, 2011 11:21 am

The head of the Libyan rebels is meeting at the White House today. I bet he comes away with a lot more than the CBC, or any other group that cares about the LTU in this country.

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Post by Abbie Fri May 13, 2011 12:52 pm

carl98430 wrote:The head of the Libyan rebels is meeting at the White House today. I bet he comes away with a lot more than the CBC, or any other group that cares about the LTU in this country.

Saw a tweet earlier, the U.S. is sending $165 million for education in Indonesia. I'm going to keep my opinion on the status of 589 to myself for the time being and hope I'm wrong.

In addition to the funds, Bauer said the U.S. government was preparing other programs to improve the quality of education in the Southeast Asian country that cover different educational levels, from elementary to high school.

http://tinyurl.com/3ov3spk
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Post by exhaustedandtired/1208 Fri May 13, 2011 12:53 pm

DesperateInRI wrote:
exhaustedandtired/1208 wrote:We don't know what is next, if anything. I guess 589 just sits to die in committee unless something big happens. At least until we see what happens to the two extension killer bills!

I don't think it will die in committee. Throughout this whole thing, going back about a year and a half, we have seen the GOP hold legislation hostage until they get what they want. Now that the W & M Committee has allowed HR 1745 to be sent to the House, I think we may see some movement on HR 589. Camp and his co-sponsors know this bill doesn't have a prayer in the Senate and if it ever reached the President's desk it would be vetoed.

IMO, it will be compromise and attach. If that doesn't happen, neither bill will ever be signed into law.


Desp... I hope you are right!

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Post by gettheminNOVEMBER Fri May 13, 2011 1:12 pm

You can leave a comment by the way. Might be a good idea to flood the comments with 99ers.
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Post by Ron S Fri May 13, 2011 3:48 pm

To all who are concerned with the plight of HR589, regarding my previous post of 5/12/11, I have digested the feedback and comments that have since ensued on this thread. To “Desperate In RI”, I appreciate your comments that you agree in principle with my previous analysis and that it apparently helped to bolster your own thinking, confidence level, and hope that HR 589 can eventually become a reality. To others on this site who remain skeptical, perhaps having misunderstood my analysis by taking it out of context thinking it was more than a hypothetical…if so, I apologize for inadvertently helping to create an apparent misperception of that sort. However, in my view, skepticism can be a healthy thing; it is cynicism that can be detrimental to one’s mental well being. Personally, I understand the frustration in knowing what an emotional dilemma this whole fiasco has been with advocating for an expansion of benefits over the last year. Unfortunately, in terms of our government, it now seems we have morphed as country into a predicament where the general populace of unemployed has seemingly become “strangers in a strange land”.

Nevertheless, in terms of my previous post regarding that analysis, well certainly I neither am a prognosticator with a crystal ball, nor am I a Washington insider with any special knowledge of how things work on Capitol Hill, or possess a direct pipeline to Congresswoman Lee’s office. However, the only real credibility I can bring to my “opinion analysis” is the decades of work experience I possess in my own field in the insurance industry, analyzing and negotiating large complex liability claim exposures, where there were significant dollars at stake. (F/Y/I)…For a number of years I extensively traveled from one end of this country to the other, on behalf of various insurance companies, attending mediations helping to negotiate resolutions of these matters; some of which were very high profile. So I offer this tidbit of information to inform all of any concern, that I am very familiar and adept with analyzing a wide array of situations and that I am very sensitive with how the negotiation process works. Granted, the subject matter in Congress is a little different than what I was involved with, however, I am absolutely sure that the negotiation process in the insurance industry has many similarities and parallels to what goes on in congress when they are negotiating their differences with bringing legislation forward.

With that said, in the situation before us, to my mind, the GOP is akin to nothing more than a plaintiff’s attorney when it comes down to negotiating. In my decades of working with civil litigation, I’ve never encountered a plaintiff’s attorney opening negotiations with exactly what he expects to end up with unless he is just plain incompetent. Their initial demands are always way over the top and are far from their “least acceptable result”. Bear in mind, most of these congressmen are attorneys in the first instance and with that, for the most part, they all think alike in their approach in the process of manipulating situations and negotiating what they seek to obtain for their particular special interest. So it should not be too difficult to understand that the GOP would come out of the box swinging with a very outrageous proposal such as HR 1745 represents. Believe me, there was no serious incentive for the GOP to have done this if they weren’t feeling the pressure brought to bear by Lee’s HR 589 bill.

It is common knowledge, congressional bills are negotiated and compromised as a routine matter of course. In essence, this is nothing more than a chess game and the GOP fully expect to negotiate, as it is expected in the congressional culture. Recall at the previous meeting the GOP leadership advised Congressman Lee and Scott to work with the Ways and Means committee; translation, start negotiating. Obviously, since congress is extremely polarized about this issue one would have to be very naïve to expect that Representative Camp and his “partners in crime” are going to readily embrace Lee’s bill at the outset and just “Sheppard” it along the trail to ultimately reach Obama’s desk. So they create their own bill, or "summons & complaint" if you will, because their agenda is obviously at odds with just going along and expanding unemployment insurance yet again. The GOP operatives know full well that Lee’s bill will eventually have to be reconciled with their agenda at the end of the day. These Congressional characters may be technically dense in some ways, but I would not ever underestimate their "emotional intelligence". To be where there at in society, no doubt takes a person with a lot of personal savvy who reads, preys and manipulates on others very well to accomplish a given agenda.

The best we can all hope for is that the CBC has the political leverage, tenacity and wisdom to take on the opposition. To stay the course and negotiate intelligently to finally get some relief for the millions who now desperately are in need of it. The CBC’s humanitarian intentions are admirable and are their strength, but the question to ask is are they really up for the fight? Compromise is the order of the day and if they can rise to the challenge, then HR 589 has a good chance to prevail! After all, the economy is still sputtering along and estimates are that this will be the case for a good while longer.

One last thing, I previously communicated with Robert Reich a few months ago, who was former President Clinton’s Secretary of Labor. He is a very liberal thinker and currently is a Professor at the University of California at Berkeley. He has written best selling books such as “Aftershock” which gives a good analysis of this economic recession and offers various remedies to move forward. For what its worth, Professor Reich did tell me that he firmly advocates extending unemployment benefits; too bad he’s still not in the cabinet. At any rate, his take on congress expanding the unemployment insurance program, given the Republican take over, is that it would likely only happen if the economy goes into a “double dip” recession, which he believes is very possible given the current administration’s policies in place.

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Post by Abbie Fri May 13, 2011 4:18 pm

I have a question. If HR 589 is merged with HR 1745, what is stopping the states from taking that $ too to pay down debt etc., unless some string is attached or I missed something?
I trust the GOP as far as I can pick them up and throw them and the rest about as much.
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Post by exhaustedandtired/1208 Fri May 13, 2011 4:23 pm

WOW! Sounds great! Really does! I think it will pass now!!

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Post by Angelicrisis Fri May 13, 2011 4:27 pm

I think thats the whole point of the negotiation. If you read back earlier in this thread it's stated that Rep Lee would have to negotiate that the long term get their 14 week extention contingent on the rest of the unemployed getting thier extention then at some point the states would have the option of opting out of paying unemployment benefits and paying their debt off or continuing the 99 weeks but only after the 14 weeks run its course for the long term ( unless it's paid off in one lump sum), but only after the 99ers got some sort of relief. I hope that helps and I'm pretty sure that's what the compromise would have to look like if it indeed happens. It all is a little too contrived and reaks of pre-meditated manipulation to me, but it is a viable solution and I am grateful for the possibility.

I like your outlook Ron S. It is the only plausible solution other than letting both bills die when you look at it objectionably. Thanks for posting.

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Post by Abbie Fri May 13, 2011 4:42 pm

Thanks Angelicrisis. So at some point current UI recipients would be cut off and may never receive 99 weeks? Have I got that right? I wonder, because I know two people who are on T1, so I am interested in how this deal might be negotiated, even hypothetically. I'm a 99er but I'm worried about people who may think they will get the entire 99 weeks and don't know about what is going on with these bills.
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Post by Ron S Fri May 13, 2011 4:48 pm

Once introduced, Congressional bills are usually a work in progress as adjustments are subsequently made to bills routinely after the fact. In terms of compromising these bills, HR 1745 would have to be amended from its original form, otherwise, in its initial form it would potentially abrogate or negate the effect of HR 589. Consequently, in order for both bills to work in tandem or be integrated effectively, HR 1745 would have be amended with a time trigger so it corresponds to the intent of HR 589, allowing for it to run its course before HR 1745 can be allowed to operate with the state's financial diversion option.

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Post by Abbie Fri May 13, 2011 5:05 pm

Ron S wrote:Once introduced, Congressional bills are usually a work in progress as adjustments are subsequently made to bills routinely after the fact. In terms of compromising these bills, HR 1745 would have to be amended from its original form, otherwise, in its initial form it would potentially abrogate or negate the effect of HR 589. Consequently, in order for both bills to work in tandem or be integrated effectively, HR 1745 would have be amended with a time trigger so it corresponds to the intent of HR 589, allowing for it to run its course before HR 1745 can be allowed to operate with the state's financial diversion option.

Thanks for the explanation Ron S.
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Post by Guest Fri May 13, 2011 5:51 pm

Nice work Ron. Thanks for this. I have been mia for about a month and am just getting back up to speed. Appreciate this.

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Post by CLO Fri May 13, 2011 7:04 pm

Abbie wrote:
Ron S wrote:Once introduced, Congressional bills are usually a work in progress as adjustments are subsequently made to bills routinely after the fact. In terms of compromising these bills, HR 1745 would have to be amended from its original form, otherwise, in its initial form it would potentially abrogate or negate the effect of HR 589. Consequently, in order for both bills to work in tandem or be integrated effectively, HR 1745 would have be amended with a time trigger so it corresponds to the intent of HR 589, allowing for it to run its course before HR 1745 can be allowed to operate with the state's financial diversion option.

Thanks for the explanation Ron S.

I hope I'm wrong, but I honestly feel that the GOP has absolutely NO intention of compromising on HR 1745- and they will fight tooth and nail to pass their two bills decimating the UI system at the state and federal level. I mean, really, when have they ever compromised on any of their agenda so far? I say push for 589, and give no quarter, JMO. And I can't help asking, Ron S.- what is your UI status? I for one became a 99er a year ago, and at 54 am destitute and living with my mother. You sound like an attorney or a politician. Just wondering...

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Post by CLO Fri May 13, 2011 7:24 pm

I really can't believe how one member's opinion can balloon into this thread's discussion focusing on just that- one person's opinion. Unless he has some inside info on the GOP? People, stay focused, until there is actually a concrete proposal put forth, stay focused on faxing, e-mailing and phoning your contacts...PLEASE! ADVOCATE FOR HR589 NOW!

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Post by Abbie Fri May 13, 2011 7:39 pm

CLO wrote: I really can't believe how one member's opinion can balloon into this thread's discussion focusing on just that- one person's opinion. Unless he has some inside info on the GOP? People, stay focused, until there is actually a concrete proposal put forth, stay focused on faxing, e-mailing and phoning your contacts...PLEASE! ADVOCATE FOR HR589 NOW!

Hi CLO. I'm not focused on one poster's opinion, I'm trying to understand it. As far as the GOP goes after they pulled this stunt with 1745 after making their deal w/the Bush tax cuts,(couldn't trust them before that but I'm not in DC) they can't be trusted, who knows what they will pull next. I would rather see HR 589 stand alone and this bill die but with the GOP in charge of the House, we know that will never happen, because they have no use for the unemployed or any other group that doesn't fill their campaign coffers. It's the Dems, who I am afraid keep caving or either were duped by the Bush tax cut deal or even worse some of them in on this 1745 coming up.

BTW, I am out there everyday advocating for all the unemployed and others and giving the politicians you know what.
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Post by Guest Fri May 13, 2011 7:46 pm

CLO wrote: I really can't believe how one member's opinion can balloon into this thread's discussion focusing on just that- one person's opinion. Unless he has some inside info on the GOP? People, stay focused, until there is actually a concrete proposal put forth, stay focused on faxing, e-mailing and phoning your contacts...PLEASE! ADVOCATE FOR HR589 NOW!

Its an opinion that makes sense to some of us. thats all. It wouldn't be out of character for this to happen in this political climate. We are all aware that it is just an opinion at this point.

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Post by Guest Fri May 13, 2011 9:48 pm

CLO wrote: I really can't believe how one member's opinion can balloon into this thread's discussion focusing on just that- one person's opinion. Unless he has some inside info on the GOP? People, stay focused, until there is actually a concrete proposal put forth, stay focused on faxing, e-mailing and phoning your contacts...PLEASE! ADVOCATE FOR HR589 NOW!

I am advocating as much as I can for 589. I don't think any of us could do anymore than we are doing. This isn't just one person's opinion. I thought the same thing after watching the W&M Committee meeting on Wed.

Why would the GOP introduce that legislation knowing that HR 589 has been sitting in the committee that Rep Camp, sponsor of 1745, chairs?

It makes sense. Neither bill is going to pass on its own. I can't see the Republican controlled House voting for it, if Camp ever allows it to get out of the W & M Committee. On the other hand, HR 1745, which will probably be introduced when they return from their week off, will pass the House with no problem. It won't pass in the Senate.

Both these bills would be a waste of time and neither could become a reality unless some type of compromise is worked out.

That is what we have to keep advocating for - yes, keep pushing for HR 589, I am not going to stop. We can't let that go. We can't let them forget us.

It is just my opinion that something will have to be worked out,that includes 14 weeks for the 99ers as part of Tier 1. At this point, nothing else really makes sense.

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Post by Guest Sat May 14, 2011 3:43 am

First of all, no disrespect to the previous statements.

Just mine. What the hell is revolving around 14 weeks of $$$ going to do for us other than to say that was all we spiraled around. For god's sake, this is stupid money except for the fact that it would mean dearly the most "relief" we have from our debtors. We all know this and more.

Give us our money!

I'll say this once more. The people of this forum and similar forums just want to know - in my opinion by now Barbara Lee, President Obama - are we basketballs to bounce around or real people with real issues.

Damn it!

Again - you politicians are not being fair. Just tell the damn truth and don't let those that are suffering have some false hope, damn it!

President Obama - I can't believe this bullshit. You know, you know!
Lee - You are playing with lives, stop playing I have a secret and can't tell it like it is.

And I mean honesty at this point. I am a US citizen and I want to know after all these ridiculous months why the President has to be advised of the 589 and the 99ers involved.

Nothing else to say. Damn it. This is just stupid.


Last edited by X on Sat May 14, 2011 3:49 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : R in 99ers, other than that WE WANT ANSWERS, DAMN IT.)

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Post by cablab Sat May 14, 2011 4:19 am

@X i totally agree What the heck is 14 weeks gonna do? then what we fight for 14 more? its a vicious cycle that will never end!!!
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Post by Guest Sat May 14, 2011 4:40 am

cablab wrote:@X i totally agree What the heck is 14 weeks gonna do? then what we fight for 14 more? its a vicious cycle that will never end!!!

@cablab Thank you. We just need the damned answers NOW, without more rhetoric. Will we get the answers... hell I don't know. Will we get more beating around the responsible parties? OF COURSE! We'd be too smart to be quiet.

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