Sick of the abuse against the Occupy movement.

I came across the following comment in our local newspaper.


"It is really sad that these socialistic people just won't go out and get a job. They are so jealous and they just want to protest anybody that has any money at all."


Bull ****! Since when is it socialistic to get an even break in this country? These morons have no clue as to what the occupy movement is all about! What really grinds my gears is that people like this moron thinks there are plenty of jobs out there. What they don't understand is that there aren't enough jobs to go around. In my hometown, there are at least 20 -50 unemployed people for every 1 job available. And most of the ones that are available, (most of which are in call centers.) have the highest rate of turnover.

When our local occupy movement closed down their encampment, everyone in my community were saying crap like "Occupy a shower." "Get a Job."

Even one of my oldest friends got on the occupy bashing bandwagon. Saying "What has occupy ever done for me? there a bunch of **** with no idea what they are doing!" He even ripped into me for being a supporter. Sadly, I had to sever my friendship with him.

Unless this movement can gain more momentum, we are all screwed!

They did it to themselves with the "Global" BS. Had they stayed focused (instead the BS rioting and embrace of violence) then the public would have supported them, but this anarchy BS only goes so far.

They should have dropped the global and focused locally; squatting in houses about to be foreclosed, as well as supporting and bring attention to the long term UE. Those issues would have made them relevant
instead of the joke of a movement they have become.

The sooner they distance themselves (and start over following the above) from the individuals that seem to have taken over the movement the better.

I have to agree with Tristen here... They got violent and often caused problems for other people with traffic blocs, etc., that didn't need to happen and hurt their cause. It was a great premise but wasn't followed through with much thought...

If I recall correctly, the vast majority -- if not all -- of the violence came from the police.

I wouldn't say all as many of the protesters threw things at the police before the police did anything to them...

I came across the following comment in our local newspaper.

"It is really sad that these socialistic people just won't go out and get a job. They are so jealous and they just want to protest anybody that has any money at all."

That sounds like one of rush/rpublican talking points...They used to call
Rushs followers "dittoheads" because they merely "parrot" his words...

I have been trying to do some online resarch as of late into the relationship between Empathy/ability to view things from a perspective other than ones own AND intelligence...

There SEEMS to be on the face of it a correlation between inteligence and empathy....if this is the case it would point to Republicans generally being more stupid than Dems....

I have always believed that people generally are good at heart just "uninformed".....

It would greatly disturb me to find that a large number of people are "incapable" of being able to think outside of there own interests...

I think that the movement is amazing, but it hasn't always been run with effectiveness mostly due to violence from both sides... It's sad...

Marian wrote:I wouldn't say all as many of the protesters threw things at the police before the police did anything to them...

Where's your source? The police were cracking down and pepper-spraying long before anyone legitimately in the movement (and I say that because clearly the other side had plants designed to sabotage the movement, one of them even wrote an article and bragged about what he was doing) did anything wrong. I mean, did you not see the video where the cop is spraying seated citizens with their heads down like he's dusting crops?

Relative to the members of the occupy movement, the police were far more shady (and we all know who owns the police). Relative to the plants put in by the 1%, yeah it's probably about even.

I saw it on the news--at least here in the SF Bay Area... The protesters threw glass items at the police. They lined up and threw things at the police. However, the police were far from innocent either though and the pepper spray, etc., is inexcusable. I had wanted to join the protesters until I saw all of this--it's too violent all the way around--from the protesters to the police--they've both handled this wrong and screwed up what could have been a really good movement in my opinion.

Marian wrote:I saw it on the news--at least here in the SF Bay Area... The protesters threw glass items at the police. They lined up and threw things at the police. However, the police were far from innocent either though and the pepper spray, etc., is inexcusable. I had wanted to join the protesters until I saw all of this--it's too violent all the way around--from the protesters to the police--they've both handled this wrong and screwed up what could have been a really good movement in my opinion.

Well the police (AKA the 1%'s personal security, let's be honest) wanted to screw it up by pushing the protesters with constant abuse, evictions, etc., and they succeeded. Power and money at work to destroy it. Regardless of the violence level, this protest was doomed because there was too much power and money on the other side.

I respect your opinion, but I think you are really blaming the victim here. It was a sabotage operation from day one for the police and their overlords the 1%. There's only so much pepper-spraying, talking-down-to's, and abuse you can take before some people start to lash out, especially when you've got plants from the other side egging you on. As a comparison, did you ever see this level of harassment at tea-party protests? No! You know why? Because what they're fighting for benefits the 1% (whether they think so or not), so no need to send out "personal security" to "handle" it.

Of course, that's most likely not what the tea-party movement was originally about, but the way they sabotaged that is by changing the whole movements way of thinking into something that benefits them. They knew they couldn't do that with the Occupy movement, so it was batons, tear gas, and pepper spray all the way.

You're in San-Fran, right? Did you happen to see the stuff that was going on on the east coast? I think Occupy got started late in CA, and there was probably a lot of bitter sentiment behind the movement (and against the movement) before it even got there. From what I hear, police in some areas of CA are not-so-nice, though I can't speak from first-hand experience. If that's true, though, it would not surprise me that protesters were harassed to the point of explosion.

The movement is not dead... It could still be a really great movement and there was a lot accomplished. Many people left banks for instance because of the movement, but sometimes it didn't feel well thought out. It caused traffic jams which hindered people from being able to get to their jobs, etc., so in essence hurt the people that the movement was supposed to help.

I think that there could be a better way is all that I'm saying...

the occupy movement has gotten some mainstream media attention..
It is not dead it is part of an ongoing education of the general public
as to how things REALLY are.

There have been protest for years everytime the global leaders meet at an econimic summit, that never make the news..
The occupy movement has brought new dialog even into the republican nominating process....

The goal is to get people to criticaly re-examine long held assumptions that we are all taught from birth. this is by its nature a long process.

we as the 90 odd percent of people who acctually make up the world legitimze the existence of the one percent as we have been taught to...

If one actually questions the validity of some of these pre-conditions,
the one percents power is threatened, simply having a presence is perhaps getting some people to think.....

That's right, elvis. Who would have thought before the movement started that "economic inequality", 99%" and "economic fairness" would be words coming out of the Presiden't mouth? Remember before it started, all anyone was talking about was the debt and how to cut the budget? And now, while our side has adopted the Occupy vocabulary, the @$$hats on the other side are so desperate that they've tried to change the subject by rallying around the evils of birth control. If they weren't such despicable SOBs, I'd feel sorry for them.

And debating whether or not the movement endures under the Occupy banner is kind of missing the point. I think that this is a global (cover your eyes, tristen!) movement--it has its roots in Egypt as well as Wisconsin. They're not reporting it here, but much of Europe, not just Greece, is pushing back hard against the austerity BS that the ECB has been trying to shove down their throats. People are wising up everywhere, and I see it as waves rolling across the world. Like all significant movements in history, it's not going to succeed over night, and it has and will have its setbacks. But I do believe momentum is on our side.

I can't wait for Spring.

I peeked Joan, but I agree to some extent with your assessment; it is taking place while a lot of movements globally are. Whether that means it is part of a greater movement remains to be seen.

For it to have any credibility in America with anybody else but the far left they need to stop with the violence and bullying and SUPPORT AMERICAN'S THAT WERE HURT, I.E. THE 99ERS AND PEOPLE FORECLOSED ON, the rest is just PR BS.

Those arguing the case that the violent were plants dismiss the other side of the coin, that as the movement became a side show in order to make headlines they internally agreed to the violence believing that the line “It wasn’t us” (were so important look at how they are trying to discredit us crap LOL) would resonate…..it hasn’t.

Stick to the tag line of who was hurt by the collapse , how they were hurt and show the long term UE and those who were foreclosed on.

I would gladly support a movemnt of adults doing the above as opposed to blah blah the 1% owns the world, deck is stacked against me crap that is being peddled.

Historicaly those in power always want to subdue the "intelligencia" and some regimes have gone so far as to brutally muder, and imprison dissenters (nazi germany, stalinist russia)....

The greatest weapon the little people have in my opinion is the internet with its vast source of information....

While i agree that non-violent peacefull methods are the best, some have always felt more extremist...

tristen303 wrote:I peeked Joan, but I agree to some extent with your assessment; it is taking place while a lot of movements globally are. Whether that means it is part of a greater movement remains to be seen.

For it to have any credibility in America with anybody else but the far left they need to stop with the violence and bullying and SUPPORT AMERICAN'S THAT WERE HURT, I.E. THE 99ERS AND PEOPLE FORECLOSED ON, the rest is just PR BS.

Those arguing the case that the violent were plants dismiss the other side of the coin, that as the movement became a side show in order to make headlines they internally agreed to the violence believing that the line “It wasn’t us” (were so important look at how they are trying to discredit us crap LOL) would resonate…..it hasn’t.

Stick to the tag line of who was hurt by the collapse , how they were hurt and show the long term UE and those who were foreclosed on.

I would gladly support a movemnt of adults doing the above as opposed to blah blah the 1% owns the world, deck is stacked against me crap that is being peddled.

I won't bother responding to any of this because your overly condescending and judgmental tone clues me in that no response is going to affect your opinion. Sorry.

I'd rather stick to who caused the collapse. Ignore that and you might as well just give the green light for more people to get hurt as the smash-and-grabbers among the 1% continue to steal.

And I am puzzled by your conviction that a movement solely based on the cause of the 99ers and and victims of forclosure would draw broad-based support. You believe this because Americans have thus far demonstrated these sentiments, or...what? Depressed wages, rigged financial markets, corporate control of our politicians, takeover of elected local governments, or any other gripe is not nearly as important to them as your specific problems are? What am I missing?

by JoanB Today at 7:03 pm

""I'd rather stick to who caused the collapse. Ignore that and you might as well just give the green light for more people to get hurt as the smash-and-grabbers among the 1% continue to steal.""

Let me put forward this small idea....

I have watched a half dozen or more documentaries several times each...read numerous articles...and still...i can not put in very simple words as to HOW the Fed reserve system and some lending practices really work...
1) anybody who doesnt subscribe to conventional system of the world...is imediatly labeled a "conspericy nut"

2) Its my premise that the notion and value of "work" needs to be re-examined as it is currently tied to "money" lending to phrases such as "let your money work for you"....

3) systems that give credits for hours worked have been used on a small limited scale but not tried on a large scale....

4) these ideas of "wealth" and money" and "value" are deeply ingrained within most of us...and resistent to change...

I wish i had a simple answer, but i am pretty sure that vipolence and extreme ideas (EVEN ideas that are mostly correct) would/will be counter productive...

EDIT remember you risk shattering peoples view of the world...not a small thing...

I don't think that violence is an answer either, elvis. It would also be helpful if more police departments would be on board with that, too.

But I do think that some common sense solutions, like bringing back Glass-Steagle back, for example, would help a lot. The ideas you're talking about are interesting, but they sound a lot more extreme to me than those the Occupy people are talking about. I think that mostly, people are fed up with a few greedy SOBs strip-mining the world's economy as well at its resources, and want a stop to it. That's not radical, it's reasonable.

the elimination of Glass-stegal was under Clinton I believe...reinstituting that would be greatly beneficial...

when i look at the problem i look at the whole problem....

I am looking at cultural value systems, human nature, belief systems etc...etc....I am temped to say that the entire financial system is desiigned for unlimited growth.....and we have reached the point were growth is slower and slower...If i understand correctly the central bank/fed reserve system depends on this unlimited growth....

We pay PRIVATE bankers a small percentage of money for the privilage of borrowing money from them....The bankers are in effect siphoning this small but steady percentage of real wealth in their direction and have been for years...

simply by eliminating this private borrowing and letting the government issue money without the interest would go a long way to solve our problems...

The fractional reserve system allows money to be created by lending and debt...this is how the economy expands...this is conroled by the fed reserve board SETTING an interest rate (about as far from free-market as you can get)...

The glass-stegal bill would have prevented the bundeling of a bunch of bad debt into a larger debt instrument and relableing it as good i believe so yes it is essential....

The other issues that concern me are what we term a man/womens work, and how we put a value upon it....this i believe has been corrupted along the way by the free-market Adam Smith followers when they determined in the past that "Money" in itself was something of value and not merely a device to serve mans interests....there are many people smarter than myself, world class economists if you will who have some solutions for this...

But you are correct that this type of viewpoint will be imediatly labeled as extreme, Maoist, hitlerist and even comunist stalinist...you name it...

Thank goodness i still have freedom of thought....It is better to make some small steps than non at all, and hope for a more and more enlightened futiure where we will all get a better grasp on a more meritous system which is fair but not punishing....Production is always going up we should be able to provide at least the minimum of existence for all...

("Editorial: 'Occupy' movement fading out in a whimper").

"Anyone who claims the "Occupy" movement has no clear message is either trying to discredit it or simply isn't paying attention. This protest always has been about economic injustice and the fact that a small handful of people have corrupted our system in their favor

The fact that so many elites were alarmed and frightened by the initial outcry (including members of Congress, who are supposed to represent all the people — shame on them!) goes to show that they are in fact living in a house of cards.

USA TODAY's editorial is right to say that Occupy might lack clear goals on how to move forward, but the movement has accomplished its main original goal: to protest these injustices, not by simply holding a rally and going home, but by keeping the rally going to underscore the seriousness of this problem. Your piece accuses the protesters of sitting around and doing nothing. So maybe they should take up their Second Amendment-sanctioned guns and storm Wall Street and our nation's capitals. If our country doesn't change, it could very well come to that one day."

This is a letter making it’s way around the internet from the brave occupiers to America (how much is true I don’t know, but in case it is true a response is warranted).
To this ass clown please let me retort: my friend the day you and yours try to storm Wall Street or the Capitol is the day my brothers and I take arms against you and show you how short and inconsequential your movement really is.

Support the American’s hurt during this crisis and do it with respect and peacefully and we will support you, try it the other way and we will teach you what your professors didn’t in college, up front and personal in a manner you will never forget.

""Support the American’s hurt during this crisis and do it with respect and peacefully and we will support you, try it the other way and we will teach you what your professors didn’t in college, up front and personal in a manner you will never forget.""

Fascists always use brut physical force....
.

tristen303 wrote:("Editorial: 'Occupy' movement fading out in a whimper").

"Anyone who claims the "Occupy" movement has no clear message is either trying to discredit it or simply isn't paying attention. This protest always has been about economic injustice and the fact that a small handful of people have corrupted our system in their favor

The fact that so many elites were alarmed and frightened by the initial outcry (including members of Congress, who are supposed to represent all the people — shame on them!) goes to show that they are in fact living in a house of cards.

USA TODAY's editorial is right to say that Occupy might lack clear goals on how to move forward, but the movement has accomplished its main original goal: to protest these injustices, not by simply holding a rally and going home, but by keeping the rally going to underscore the seriousness of this problem. Your piece accuses the protesters of sitting around and doing nothing. So maybe they should take up their Second Amendment-sanctioned guns and storm Wall Street and our nation's capitals. If our country doesn't change, it could very well come to that one day."

This is a letter making it’s way around the internet from the brave occupiers to America (how much is true I don’t know, but in case it is true a response is warranted).
To this ass clown please let me retort: my friend the day you and yours try to storm Wall Street or the Capitol is the day my brothers and I take arms against you and show you how short and inconsequential your movement really is.

Support the American’s hurt during this crisis and do it with respect and peacefully and we will support you, try it the other way and we will teach you what your professors didn’t in college, up front and personal in a manner you will never forget.

The people who say they're going to go to some sort of civil war don't know what they're talking about. The machine would stomp them in a heart-beat. It leads to nothing but many thousands dead, and mostly on their side.

These people are crazy, and every group has them. Why judge the entire movement on fools like that? The thing is, there are not actually that many people who believe this is going to go to any sort of war, but the media gives these clowns attention to help undermine the movement. The idiots who say this stuff have no idea that the machine uses it against them by convincing more moderate people that the movement is "scary" or "violent." It's completely self-defeating.

It's like, 1% of religious people are insane and blow up buildings for their cause, or molest children, or camp out at funeral's for a soldier who died in active duty, disrespecting them and their families. Does that mean I'm going to judge the 99% who are doing the right thing and doing good for the world in the name of religion? No!