The Unemployed Army Is Now Bigger Than The Actual Army

by Guest Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:57 am

As has always been true, the coexistence of idling workplaces and cast-off workers remains the single most severe indictment of capitalism as a system for the reproduction of human society. The arrival of a new social category—"the 99ers"—punctuates that grim observation today.

After all, what made the Great Depression "great" was not only the staggering level of unemployment (no less true in various earlier periods of economic collapse), but its duration. Years went by, numbingly, totally demoralizingly, without work or hope. When it all refused to end, people began to question the fundamentals, to wonder if, as a system, capitalism hadn't outlived its usefulness.

http://motherjones.com/politics/2011/09/unemployed-armies-great-recession-99ers

by jmainframe Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:21 pm

"The Unemployed Army Is Now Bigger Than The Actual Army"

Now there's a scary thought!

by JoanB Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:39 pm

It should be scarier to those in power than it seems to be. Maybe it is. Or maybe they're just stoooooopid. I really think we give them way too much credit in the intelligence department.

by TR11005 Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:54 pm

This is the Greatest JOB Depression. At least back then many people had farms and the jobs that they worked could go back to someday in many cases. They were not outsourced never to return again!

Today, even with extensions that is not enough!

by Guest Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:01 pm

I think so too, Joan. I am starting to think they are just plum stupid when it comes to issues involving the "lesser" class. They have no clue. On the other hand, they have had plenty of opportunity as of late to learn what we need and want....for example, occupywallstreet or better yet, occupytheworld SHOULD be a REAL eye opener for them.

I hate throwing around conspiracy theories, but I also think that a number of them DO know exactly whats going on and thats the way they like it. They have let power corrupt their souls.

$$$ IS the root of all evil....

They should also be afraid that this unemployed army will turn on them. After all, there are millions of underemployed/unemployed. I would be shaking in my $1000 boots right now if I were them.

We should start another occupy...occupyjobs. lol

by Guest Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:50 pm

I'm 100% for this protest rally. But when I see remarks from people expecting to see some miraculous change happening overnight or else???

What's that all about? Blood in the streets? Naive comments about ICPO, etc.??? Don't kid yourself.

Would someone please tell me what you expect to happen and your time frame expectations? I'm sure I'm not going to get a bullet point list, but it would be refreshing. I'll just get the usual flack without substance. Let's stay grounded and not go flying off the deep end too soon.

I'm not trying to be contrary... just trying to be realistic.

We can do this right or we can just screw it up royally.

by tristen303 Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:10 am

Look I don't know where you think your scaring anyone and secondly that isn't going to help the cause that will only invite trouble.
The key is to get the 51% of undecided Americans to get on board (and no most Americans are not supporting the movement yet).
Scaring, being threatening will only result in negativity. If the protests are kept focused (instead of being all things and everything) and peaceful then what should be the goal is having politicians see the advantage of working with the group (as opposed to just lip service or standing on the sidelines and waiting).
This movement has one shot and just by some of the posts on here about scaring people or advocating conflict is just plain stupid and will bring bad publicity on a good movement.

by Guest Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:47 am

I didn't take it that way either. I thought you meant votes as well.

As a matter of fact, this is a way to get them to pay attention. Grover Norquist is not the only one who can collect pledges. We can to.

The unemployed in this country need to be clear, if you put politics before people, the people who helped get you elected then the message has to be:

A NO VOTE ON THE JOBS BILL IS A NO VOTE FOR YOU IN 2012! The Unemployed Army Is Now Bigger Than The Actual Army 34243

The Unemployed Army Is Now Bigger Than The Actual Army 34243

And just in case any of you feel I am being partisan, let me assure you, the Democrats who voted NO on this bill, did so to distance themselves from the President as he is unpopular in their districts and they are fighting for their political lives. Now, it could be with the party's blessing, as they don't want to lose any additional seats in the House or Senate, but this is about our survival and our safety. If you won't vote to help get us jobs, then get HR589 out of committee and pass the extension of unemployment benefits for those still eligible. Just pass a bill that continues UE until the rate falls below 6%. Nobody, not even the msm is denying that there are no jobs to fill the need of millions, what is available won't put a dent in the need. It all helps, but it's not enough.

Time to start the emails, tweets and dust off the bullhorns. The Unemployed Army Is Now Bigger Than The Actual Army 34243

Just remember 60 votes needed. Minimum!

by Guest Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:13 pm

I have said this many times. I think we give to much credit to our elected officials that they know how to fix this, and I really don't think they do. That being said, they should be trying everything within their power to fix it, which includes listening to advice of the many economists who have weighed in on this subject, many, many times.

I think it's just like this. If our country was a company and it was sinking fast, would you not, as a leader, owner, CEO, whatever your title, continually try to fix the problem, no matter what the cost? Most would. The lack of action indicates they not only don't care about the people involved, but the country as well. If those businesses and families are not able to survive, well so be it. That's the attitude of the people we elected and worse that we pay. It's just wrong. The Unemployed Army Is Now Bigger Than The Actual Army 34243

by mistermunster Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:20 pm

Hard times were common enough, but except in extremis most people retained land and tools, not to speak of common rights to woodlands, grazing areas, and the ability to hunt and fish. They were—we would say today—"self-employed." Only when such means of subsistence and production became concentrated in the hands of merchant-capitalists, manufacturers, and large landowners did the situation change fundamentally. A proletariat—those without property of any kind except their own labor power—made its appearance, dependent on the propertied to employ them. If, for whatever reason, the market for their labor power dried up, they were set adrift.

IN THE HANDS of merchant-capitalists was the start of this decline. those without property of any kind except their own labor power

Idiots WHO keep using the GET A JOB line like they are growing on every tree like apples don't even seen the TRUTH in it all. Once the merchant-capitalists rigged the system and CREATED a system that WHOLLY pigeonholes LABOR into working for them. GAVE them all the power. There is so much truth in all this but many are so conditioned to follow THE ONLY system they ever known. They believe in it and live and die by it. affraid

question is HOW do we get out of this without waging war on the merchant-capitalists system that has tied our hands for generations enslaved to them?

by JoanB Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:31 am

I have two answers, one for X, and one for tristen:

I haven't seen anyone call for miraculous overnight change. But I will point out that after what seems like decades of getting pummeled in the message wars, these kids have, in less than a month, changed the conversation. Nobody is talking about reducing the debt any more. Even Eric Freakin' Cantor uttered the phrase "income inequality" this week. I believe that they have actually moved the switch on the tracks. And that is miraculous to me.

As for public support:

http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2011/10/18/occupy_wall_street_poll_shows_protests_mainstream_popularity.html

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-10-13/politics/30274408_1_tea-party-unfavorable-opinion-early-polling

This one you have to read down to find the relevant numbers:

http://swampland.time.com/2011/10/13/time-poll-obama-leads-head-to-head-match-ups-with-republican-rivals/

This is what they are scared of, tristen. Not of bloodshed. Of us winning. What Ghandi said:

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

by ranbrow123 Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:57 am

JoanB wrote:I haven't seen anyone call for miraculous overnight change. But I will point out that after what seems like decades of getting pummeled in the message wars, these kids have, in less than a month, changed the conversation. Nobody is talking about reducing the debt any more. Even Eric Freakin' Cantor uttered the phrase "income inequality" this week. I believe that they have actually moved the switch on the tracks. And that is miraculous to me.

*links*

This is what they are scared of, tristen. Not of bloodshed. Of us winning. What Ghandi said:

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win.

Beautifully said.

by tristen303 Sun Oct 23, 2011 1:35 pm

Time is left elaning the actual polls are as follows

http://www.gallup.com/poll/150116/generic-republican-continues-lead-obama-vote.aspx

The only advantage Obama has is a weak field and he won't be re-elected anyway.

As for the debt debate the media isn't covering it, nothing has changed.

As for Repubs scared? I was very involved with my former party and I can tell you nothing that OWS is doing scares them. They are raising more money since then and their base is even getting bolder on policies.

The only reason OWS is still around because the smart mayors know when it gets cold they will leave (or be in numbers where they can be arrested easier). Support for them is slipping everyday because the movement has no focus and is suddenly bringing all the crazies out.

UE is the only issue and should be what the march is about (that WOULD scare everyone), all this other BS is not helping our cause. UE is the only number that matters and is the only number that reflects income equality; the anti corp BS is drowning out that msg.

by Guest Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:37 pm

It isn't drowning it out. It's stating that the corporation, who hold some responsibility in not hiring, are raking in the money and couldn't care less if people actually work. What's ridiculous about all this is, as fewer people work and collect benefits, demand will continue to decrease and then what, just watch how fast they change their tune. This is a very slippery slope they are all walking right now, corporations, banks, wall street and the Republicans. You can keep ignoring, but eventually you won't be able to anymore. And, by the way, last year for six straight months - June to December, it was all about UE and nobody paid attention or worried except those who would become 99ers if no extension was passed. We were worried, THEY weren't.

And another thing, these bipartisan debt reduction meetings are being held behind closed doors, almost in secret and the media has reported that this is happening and interviewed many in both Congress and the Senate who are not at all happy about it. So to say the media is not covering it is not really fair, you can't cover what's being done in secret. They are doing so, partly in fear of what happened prior to our downgrade happening again, which is dead wrong, but that's the reason. There is still no guarantee "across the pond" that it will be settled there and then our debt reduction committee, which was forced upon us because of nonsense and lack of governing, good governing. We are far from being safe from another economic disaster here or in Europe and anyone naive enough to think it's not all tied together is in for a shock.

It's really too hard for anyone to say a year out that the President won't or will be re-elected. Right now it's even harder to say who the President will be running against. That's what is still up for grabs. What the Republicans and Democrats alike do not really think will happen is a guarantee to happen, anyone trying to hold their seat in Congress and the Senate is sure to lose. People are angry and the scary thing is, we are not hearing much about who is opposing those who are running against the incumbents yet, but trust me, it will be an ugly fight to the end. And what is scarier, who knows who will get in.

by Guest Sun Oct 23, 2011 2:44 pm

And tristen, I also have to add that over over a year and a half, I have been advocating for benefits and jobs, collected signatures, emailed, called, tweeted and faxed to get help for the unemployed and the 99ers. I have reached out on sites to get the 99ers and the unemployed to get together, in a large, unified number to get our voices heard. Aside from our members, there wasn't an overwhelming response to it. I was also at the occupyphilly march for jobs, where people from NJ and DE attended because it's closer than other locations in their states and again out of thousands that were there 700 marched for the unemployed and 99ers. So the message we need jobs and benefits isn't being overshadowed by the occupy movements across the country, the 99ers and unemployed are not showing up as they should. Let me be clear, I am not referring to our members or pointing fingers, but if the message is being overshadowed, it's because those who it directly has the most meaning for, the unemployed and the 99ers are not showing up. You cannot blame the occupiers for our message not getting the attention it needs unless we show up in numbers to make sure it's getting out.

by Guest Sun Oct 23, 2011 5:54 pm

I was hoping this movement would inspire the unemployed/99ers who have been unreachable. It is the perfect time to act. I would hate to see the opportunity go to waste.

I did see lots of protest signs regarding unemployment at occupyboston. When we go back we are going to go with 99er signs. They allow you to stand them up on their own if you cant stay to hold them. I want to make several and put them all around the square. Not sure if it will do any good but its worth a try I suppose.

by Guest Sun Oct 23, 2011 6:07 pm

Sick & Tired wrote:I was hoping this movement would inspire the unemployed/99ers who have been unreachable. It is the perfect time to act. I would hate to see the opportunity go to waste.

I did see lots of protest signs regarding unemployment at occupyboston. When we go back we are going to go with 99er signs. They allow you to stand them up on their own if you cant stay to hold them. I want to make several and put them all around the square. Not sure if it will do any good but its worth a try I suppose.

Great idea... I did the round button and the flyer for the NY rally last year. If anyone would care to have the "originals", I'll hunt through my old discs and make them available.

Thanks S & T!

by Guest Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:04 pm

X wrote:
Sick & Tired wrote:I was hoping this movement would inspire the unemployed/99ers who have been unreachable. It is the perfect time to act. I would hate to see the opportunity go to waste.

I did see lots of protest signs regarding unemployment at occupyboston. When we go back we are going to go with 99er signs. They allow you to stand them up on their own if you cant stay to hold them. I want to make several and put them all around the square. Not sure if it will do any good but its worth a try I suppose.

Great idea... I did the round button and the flyer for the NY rally last year. If anyone would care to have the "originals", I'll hunt through my old discs and make them available.

Thanks S & T!

Remember Kian from the original UF who started a rally in NYC last year? She is starting a new group within the occupy movement for the 99ers, the Jobless Avengers. http://www.unemployed-friends2.org/t3980-99ers-join-occupy-wall-street-movement#47854

by Guest Sun Oct 23, 2011 7:45 pm

This is great news. Just what we need.

by tristen303 Sun Oct 23, 2011 9:34 pm

Now were talking! I will help in Denver

by Guest Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:00 pm

Jobless avengers is exactly what we need! Its a good start. I will help too.

Liz, I do remember kian from the original UFF! what a great idea.
Im glad to hear she is still around and still in the fight for the unemployed. Very Happy

by Guest Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:03 pm

X wrote:
Sick & Tired wrote:I was hoping this movement would inspire the unemployed/99ers who have been unreachable. It is the perfect time to act. I would hate to see the opportunity go to waste.

I did see lots of protest signs regarding unemployment at occupyboston. When we go back we are going to go with 99er signs. They allow you to stand them up on their own if you cant stay to hold them. I want to make several and put them all around the square. Not sure if it will do any good but its worth a try I suppose.

Great idea... I did the round button and the flyer for the NY rally last year. If anyone would care to have the "originals", I'll hunt through my old discs and make them available.

Thanks S & T!

Thanks X! Im sure we would all appreciate the originals. I have some gif's that i found on google a while back that some might like too.

by TR11005 Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:01 am

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/keith-boykin/occupy-wall-street-media_b_1019707.html

I don't know if others have read this yet. This is worth mentioning, since the Republicans and tea baggers only tear up the 99% and 99ers. The media are spreading myths that are not true. When the media like FAUX are mostly Republican it is not fair.

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