Tax Cuts

A year ago, when the Republicans were so bent on extending their tax cuts for the rich, I calculated and exposed on the Floor of the House just how much money these tax cuts were worth each year for Rush Limbaugh ($2,689,135), Glenn Beck ($1,512,352) , Sean Hannity ($1,006,352), Bill O'Reilly ($914,352), Sarah Palin ($638,352), Newt Gingrich ($247,352) and George W. Bush himself ($187,552).

This is very obviously one-sided, but it makes a point. Sickening...cut the benefits from people who don't have a pot to pee in or a window to throw it out while the wealthiest among us don't have to participate or pay for services they use the most.

The Republicans and Williard will eventually pay for their arrogant ways. Kick us old dogs when were down and when their not looking we will bite them in the butt.

It's not the governments money it's the peoples money that have earned it.

How people think it's right or just to vote themselves money out of other peoples pockets is laughable and called theft.

The problem is a spending problem not tax cuts; even raising taxes higher then present does nothing to cure the nations ill's because we are spending to much. Cut spending first then raise taxes to pay off the debt and only the debt.

Raising taxes first is irresponsible and shows a fundamental lack of intelligence regarding basic finance.

if they call Obamcare unconstitutional, then every Senator and Congressman should immediately have their health insurance dropped. That would be unconstitional too. Many things for the rich can be cut. Such oil, yatches, second homes, etc. Don't take it from the people that are struggling.

tristen303 wrote:It's not the governments money it's the peoples money that have earned it.

How people think it's right or just to vote themselves money out of other peoples pockets is laughable and called theft.

The problem is a spending problem not tax cuts; even raising taxes higher then present does nothing to cure the nations ill's because we are spending to much. Cut spending first then raise taxes to pay off the debt and only the debt.

Raising taxes first is irresponsible and shows a fundamental lack of intelligence regarding basic finance.

Taxes are the fee you pay for the PRIVILEGE to live where you live, and for the greedy filthy rich, living here is quite a privilege indeed. It is not theft, plain and simple. Now stop being so dramatic. You don't like taxes, you think they are theft? Then go find another country. Guaranteed those countries won't offer you or the greedy assholes whose opinion you're quoting near the opportunities that America, Land of the Rich and Home of the Banker offers you.

I think the problem is you're thinking that people want the struggling small businesses to pay all these taxes. I'm all for giving start-ups and small businesses assistance to help those businesses be successful (oops, that would mean more taxes. I'm sure you would not be in support of that, either), but do you really think any politicians or the media really care about those people when they present the words you are repeating here?

Hmmmm I checked my birth certificate and that wasn't on there, I then checked all four of my daughters and it wasn't on there either, I checked my wife's and still nothing. So please provide paragraph and verse as well as where I can find that it is a "privilege" to be American and that there is fee scale (sliding I'm sure because although a privialge for all only the successful are fined, right). Please leave out all progressive, liberal nonsense that is pure opinion used to base justification of the theft.

As for another country I like mine just fine provide we purge the entitlement mentality from it, your words are exactly why this nation is becoming second rate in everything; your the one that needs a new country mine is fine. It seems you would be better off in Venezuela, Russia or perhaps China (they seem to hold your opinions).

America is a country of opportunity, and well always be that because until those of you seeking to make a country of fairness can contribute like those of opportunity, you will never change a thing...why because as much as you can't see the forest through the trees you need them the most; you just can't get it together yourselves unless it involves taking from someone else (not earning , it's laughable.

Please explain how it isn't considered theft, where one political party exists to vote themselves money from those that are more successful to subsidize those that are not in order to be elected.

As for small business they are the ones that will pay the tax and everyone knows it they just hide it well. I want to be rich, very rich and if I earn it I want to keep as much of it as I can..because it's mine. Now the one place I agree with you is in a tax on inheritance (not on the direct immediate family but on trusts that fiancee the Kennedy's, Kerry's and Bush's of the country)

And lastly you and I both know that the tax cuts will stand because in the end the Dems need the rich far more then they need the sheep waiting for the next entitlement to be provided to them for their vote.

I think it was either Jefferson or Franklin that said something about the end of a Democracy when the people can vote themselves money from those more successful and warned against it.

One party exists to protect those that earn it while the other party exists to keep a majority indentured to their handouts from the more successful for the purpose of being elected.

Now before I read any of that, can you promise me that it's not going to be inflammatory rhetoric coupled with personal attacks and a condescending tone directed at me because you think I associate democrat and therefore must automatically be wrong?

Seriously, let me know, because if you can't, I've got better things to do than read 7 paragraphs of that. Thanks.

"Please explain how it isn't considered theft, where one political party exists to vote themselves money from those that are more successful to subsidize those that are not in order to be elected."

There is no doubt about it that the democraps depend on the votes of the unprivileged to get elected - forcing the rest of us to support the programs. How is this different from tax cuts and write-offs that predominantly excuse the wealthiest among us from paying for the cost of the services they use the most? Is it fair that we pay for their many yacht basins, marinas, private airports, security, fire, police, water treatment, highways, "public" lands that they are in the process of redesigning as playgrounds for the rich?

Did you see the budget that passed yesterday in the House? Even the oil companies don't think they should still be receiving huge subsidies in light of their unprecedented profits - assistance they've been given for over 100 years to - get this, develop and find new oilfields!! Who do you think benefits from the farm bill? The subsidies that are given to agribusinesses like Monsanto actually destroy small farmers, because they cannot compete with artificially lowered prices - this is what happens when corn is allowed into an economy like Mexico - their farmers can't compete so if you're old enough to remember, they fled like refugees once the trade agreements were signed in the early 90s.

I could go on, but what we should all recognize as working stiffs is we're all getting screwed - and I mean screwed so badly that if we don't wake the hell up, and quit repeating the spin that's constantly spun in the mainstream media - owned by Rupert Murdoch or a few other multi-billionaires who most certainly don't have our interests in sight, we will not recognize this country. The propaganda is designed to "divide and conquer" as Nixon used to repeat so that we don't discuss things intelligently among ourselves and scapegoat a class of people to redirect the blame as was done to the Jewish people in Germany.

BOTH parties are vying for campaign funds and votes. In order to retain their seats, we're paying them $175,000+ to campaign 24/7 while their staff works with Washington lobbyists to concoct legislation that gives corporations an upper hand. What we all need to recognize is we're all in this together - there's absolutely no dignity in just surviving and not being able to work at jobs that matter for compensation that no where near matches a living wage. This country was founded upon slavery and genocide - we need to wake up to the fact that the grandchildren of slaveowners very much hate having to pay a fair wage - let alone make sure our working environments are safe, resent that we are given time off to spend with our families including sick time, holiday pay, pensions, etc. They want to rape and pillage everything at their discretion as they were once free to do. Can't you see that they are trying to roll back everything that was fought for in the last century - ever heard of the Gilded Age?? Can't you see that we are being forced to pay for what the Walmart's won't? In other words, when corporations refuse to pay a living wage and hires mostly part-time workers so they don't have to pay any benefits, that the local community is forced to pick up the difference? Most of the red states DO NOT have a minimum wage - the only reason that people receive one is because of the federal law. Can you see why they want states' rights? I never dreamed I'd see the day when this country would sink so low. We are already number 27 on the list of industrialized nations - right down there with Chile and Mexico. Aren't you proud? Texas, the dream, now matches Mississippi in terms of educational achievement.

We have to be honest and ask ourselves how this happened. Even Saint Ronald raised taxes throughout the 80s as did Clinton. NEVER has a president lowered taxes and gotten us into two wars without paying for it. NEVER. Ask yourself why. The right has historically been against FDR's New Deal since it's inception - read the accounts!! They finally figured out that the only way to destroy his and subsequent programs is to completely privatize the treasury. In other words, when 40 cents out of every dollar is used to pay off the interest on the debt alone, there will forcefully be severe cuts in not only federal, but state and local programs as well with a bankster like Goldman Sachs getting a lot for nothing - talk about a slight of hand - ask yourself why we are paying any interest. The private FED prints money and lends it to the United States Treasury at interest? This is a double screw - we pay a hidden tax because printing money inflates the value of our currency, and then they have us by the wallies when we report to the IRS while the wealthiest don't contribute. If you still believe their rhetoric check out David Johnston's

Free Lunch: How the Wealthiest Americans Enrich Themselves at Government Expense (and Stick You with the Bill)

I see some available for a penny - Johnston is a republican, but very disappointed in what conservatives have become. http://www.amazon.com/Free-Lunch-Wealthiest-Themselves-Government/dp/1591841917

While there are countless abuses taking place, the gov't give-aways that prop up banks, car manufacturers, air, health, military - all the private industrial complexes - social (people) programs pale in comparison. Same with white collar crime - this corruption far exceeds the petty theft that we repeatedly hear about on the "news" while the real criminals get away with extraordinarily devious behavior because they've paid to elect officials and judges that return their favors. They've also made sure that there isn't any oversight in government by chopping the legs off their budgets so you have what amounts to a handful of public servants assigned to the impossible task of regulation. In case you didn't notice, "our" government agencies are all full of industry representatives too so they make sure corporate interests are protected. Keep that in mind the next time you swallow a pill. Why didn't we raise hell when the whistleblower laws were passed? So if you are tasked to make sure that there aren't abuses, you could wind up in the slammer for telling anybody that you witnessed a cover-up for instance?? This isn't the "democracy" I want Amerika to be spreading...

Workers unite and take this country back from the criminals that have gotten the upper hand. We do not have much time - if the cons take control of the Senate, all of the anti-worker legislation and cuts to programs that we take for granted, that have passed in the House will move - even if there's a presidential veto, they will be able to over-ride it. We really need to think seriously about the self-serving moles in both parties, and insist on reforming how our elections are financed - otherwise this country will no longer be a democracy, but a plutocracy - I see a police state in the making so the criminals can keep everything they've stolen. THEY ARE STEALING OUR NATIONAL HERITAGE...it's a modern kind of slavery - we pay their way and should be content to receive nothing in return. Did anyone see the mini-drones that were recently developed to fly over our homeland? Most of this crap is drummed up to make a profit - like the nude scanning machines that Chertoff and Hayden own. Let's insist on producing something that improves our lives not that returns an enormous profit to ex-officials who are nothing more than bloodsucking, vicious sociopaths.

This is an OLD argument....Its called social responsibility....
Nobody made "their money" in a vacuum....just how responsible we as a people are to one another seems to be the problem...

1) there will come a time as productivity increases, that fewer people are needed to produce everything that is needed..(we may have already entered that state)
2) perhaps a reduced work week with 30 hrs/4 day work week would help transistion...
3) i am not in favor of just giving people stuff...however giving people food/chlothing and shelter of a bare minimum standard seems resonable.
4) there are those that think a birth certificate seems to be a form of ownership by the government....(link provided)
4-A) if we are in fact "wards of the state" that would justify an entitlement mentality...(just saying)

5) my parents both worked and ran a family business they saved and never took vacations or spent money frivously...they encountered severe medical bills and the government took everthing...so much for middle-class wealth...(dissapearing class)

The question is SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY...what is it? how responsible are we? some religions designate 10 percent to charity

What we are aproaching here is a real mixture of church and state...IMO
http://www.macquirelatory.com/Birth%20Certificate%20Truth.htm

This is an OLD argument

What is an old argument? Whether governments (people) should take care of those that can't help themselves?

1) there will come a time as productivity increases, that fewer people are needed to produce everything that is needed..(we may have already entered that state)
2) perhaps a reduced work week with 30 hrs/4 day work week would help transition...

The issue of productivity has been discussed since machines replaced humans - some actually thought that it would allow people to have more time to enjoy life by developing their talents!! If we were really honest we would recognize that there could never come a time when we are able to produce "everything that is needed" - except material crap. We don't even begin to address all the things that people need to have a full life, because these "things" don't return a profit.

Regarding reducing the work week - corporations are making employees work more hours or hiring only part-time so they don't have to pay benefits - hence the false productivity - while 25% of the workforce is laid off idle, skills getting rusty. Germany did the opposite - they retained the work force, but reduced everybody's hours. They were able to do this because their businesses aren't responsible for healthcare. We spent billions - it's probably a trillion now paying people NOT to work!!

I'm sorry that your parents lost everything they worked for - so did I as did countless Americans. American history - not the tales written and presented by aristocrats - is full of volatile periods describing the planned theft of wealth from people unable to defend themselves, who were intentionally targeted and taken advantage of. How much do you know about the French Revolution? I'm thinking it's no coincidence that you shared the link regarding the collusion of church and state.

Society has become profoundly materialistic. In contrast to the nineteenth century, in which saving was a virtue, consumption is now our primary goal. The aim of life has changed so that the consumption of more and better things has taken the place of the vision of a society of solidarity and love. It is extremely important for us to be "in style" at all costs with many living above their means to prove to those around them that "they're successful." While lip service is paid to the traditional religious ideas, the fact is that these ideas have become an empty shell. Even religious leaders talk about abundance and how it is showered on those that are blessed, although they are referring to material wealth as the prize for proximity to "God." Not perfection of man, but the perfection of things is the aim of contemporary society, in the countries of the West, as well as in the communist system. The well-fed, well-clad, and well-amused man is our goal - a man who has much, and uses much - but is little. Nowhere is this more profound than here in the U.S.A. where we use more resources than other nations combined, and engage in warfare for access to these resources. Tragically, there are many empty souls aspiring to this definition of wealth. It has dawned upon many thoughtful persons today that we started out to make mass production a means for a better human life, but the means have become transformed into ends. Currently, and I think our lives depend upon it, we need to be more conscious of how much we consume and how much that is non-essential is produced just because it has guaranteed a profit. We are propping up industries that aren't benefiting the human condition - they've grown profitable, and there are very powerful interests promoting their continued existence. War profiteering is the oldest industry known and now we have global participation in something so sick that if we don't wake up, humans will suffer the fate of the dinosaurs. In other words, the really important work isn't done or is voluntary, because it doesn't return a profit. This is what is so discouraging to the right regarding government services - they want to privatize all these things so they can invest in the corporation or entity that owns the service - even if it means privatizing the soldier for profit. Start thinking about what we produce - and how absolutely non-essential most of it is, but how magnificent this planet could be - we don't have much time - all living things need clean water and air - should we continue to allow the fossil fuel industry to determine our fate?

"Out of this life, I shall never take the things of silver and gold I make. All that I now cherish and hoard away after I leave, on this earth will stay. Though I have toiled for a painting rare to hang on the wall, I must leave it there. Though I call it mine, and boast its worth, I must give it up when I leave this earth. All that I gather and all that I keep I must leave behind, when I fall asleep. And I often wonder what I shall own in that other life, when I pass alone. What shall I find, and what shall they see in the soul that answers the call for me? Shall the Great Judge learn when my task is through that my spirit has gathered riches too? Or shall at last it be mine to find, that all I had worked for I had left behind?"

by sraney Today at 12:02 pm

""This is an OLD argumentWhat is an old argument?
Whether governments (people) should take care of those that can't help themselves?""
The arguement is how much people with means are responsible for the care of those without.

Social Darwinism seems to have much support among the wealthy...who mostly vote republican....why is it the republican right are still opposed to teaching evolution in schools? but are quick to use it as a defense for greed?

''Society has become profoundly materialistic"----yes it has....just a thought here but our economy seems to depend on people buying practicly disposable objects over and over....
This seems to be a free-market phenonmen that is overlooked and taken as normal...Is this evidence of a "holy free market" glitch?

1) what if products were truly built to last....that would also kill our economy....

why is it the republican right are still opposed to teaching evolution in schools? but are quick to use it as a defense for greed?

That's a very good question - you are paying attention to their constant flip-flop hypocracy. Most people just digest it which is why they get away with so much crap - nobody thinks critically anymore. For instance, were you aware that it was Republicans who suggested the "individual mandate" as the solution for healthcare back in the 90s - the very issue they're rallying against right now.

our economy seems to depend on people buying practically disposable objects over and over

This is referred to as "planned obsolescence" - a policy of intentionally designing a product with a limited useful life. If you look at the design of old things - houses, furniture for instance, it's amazing the quality. Now everything is disposable - even people. We need to ask ourselves who is benefiting from this economic system? The majority of people do not - capitalism is extremely destructive and the slave labor that's forced to work in the horrendous conditions required to manufacture all the trash that supports this deteriorating system should be a critical issue for all working class citizens. Talk about promises betrayed - capitalism is nothing more than democracy for the few - frankly, I think the level of drug and alcohol addiction - including the massive profits from anti-depressants, should be a wake up call to this style of life that's really anti-life. The planet simply cannot continue to sustain or support this insanity. (Better quality goods do exist - they cost a little more, but you don't have to replace them if you take care and maintain - I'm constantly laughed at for the aged tools and things I have - they're old but work - some I intentionally purchased vintage, because it infuriates me to have to waste my hard earned money on junk and resent the time it takes to shop for it.)

what if products were truly built to last....that would also kill our economy

Products used to be built to last and the economy hummed along - look at the golden years of America - the 50s and 60s. We still know how to build things, but unfortunately what we build mostly supports the military industrial complex. Economic downturns are intentionally created by the FED to depress wages, transfer ownership of property and I think it's also a way to steal what's owed to "unsophisticated" investors - i.e., when your 401k sinks into the toilet along with your stock portfolio. Those in the know, sometimes referred to as 'the sophisticated" pull out or sell before the FED hits the switch so they don't lose - and some are so sophisticated that they even win when they hedge a bet that there will be a loss!!

by sraney Today at 1:52 pm

"""Most people just digest it which is why they get away with so much crap - nobody thinks critically anymore. For instance, were you aware that it was Republicans who suggested the "individual mandate" as the solution for healthcare back in the 90s - the very issue they're rallying against right now""

The flip flop on romneycare is mentioned constantly on MSNBC...the fact that that the romney campaign now tells outright lies at every occasion and nolonger even accnowledges its is also mentioned....

i was watching my favorite movie "dr stranglove" the other day when it hit me that those responsible for its witty sarcastic dialog lived their whole lives out in a time of constant warfare (as we still do).....

Gen smedley butler (medal of honor winner) came out against war in the 1930's....there have been major movements here and in europe
pointing out the truth behind all our wars...(abe lincoln was against our mexican war while in congress)...for quite some time...

Critical thinking does seem to be lacking....and i am not sure if it has anything to do with intelligence, but it does involve effort and imagination...

I can tell you i have been active in the field of chemcal dependancy for a decade and a half....Critical thinking involves a close inspection of yourself and how others see you...NOT how you wished you were...not how youd like it to be..etc,etc...

It is the major stumbling block to sobriety...it allows a person to take responsibility for themselfs, AND to imagine themselves in anothers sitution the foundation of TOLERANCE..

This critical thinking involves personal honesty and seems to be VERY hard for many....I am not sure if they choose to not do this or they are incapable....but this directly relates to the population as a whole...

without this critical thinking the world is condemmed to be in a rut...my hope is that with more access to more information a tiny percentage will continue to become aware untill it is unstopable....in my lifetime???? maybe....

ranbrow123 wrote:Now before I read any of that, can you promise me that it's not going to be inflammatory rhetoric coupled with personal attacks and a condescending tone directed at me because you think I associate democrat and therefore must automatically be wrong?

Seriously, let me know, because if you can't, I've got better things to do than read 7 paragraphs of that. Thanks.

You should follow your own advice

[quote="elvis44102"]This is an OLD argument....Its called social responsibility....
Nobody made "their money" in a vacuum....just how responsible we as a people are to one another seems to be the problem.



I agree with you partially, but being successful no more means "you couldn't have got there without the rest of America so you owe to be fair (fair is crap, this is a country of opportunity not some children's playground catering to fair)" anymore then Lance Armstrong has to be slower just to be fair, not win by a lot just to be fair to the rest of participants since he couldn't have gotten there without them.

The founding fathers were very clear, they did not want an entitlement state; some help yes, but cradle to grave....no.


And yes I have in fact posted many times to the Republicans on this site and the previous that the mandate was a Republican idea. I find that either the country is moving farther right or something because I see more Dems acting conservative at least during the "Reagan Era" they love. I agree with you about medical, in certain instances.

Smedley Butler was more then just a General, he rose through the ranks of the Marines (through all of America's colonial pursuits in the beginning), a true hero, but yet through all of that he still was very much a believer of opportunity over fair (you it in his writings and development of the Marines). I am Marine and the wars pissed me off quite a bit, especially now and neither side has shown me what was won over what was lost.

But tolerance? Be careful of tolerance, the other side of that coin is how everything bad in the world starts.....with just the right amount of tolerance. Analyzing who's intelligent vs effort (and imagination) does not bod well for a partitioner of "tolerance". I would imagine one who is tolerant sees the good in both, right? Not one who feels superior, feeling sorry or just thinking of themselves as the bigger person, that type of tolerance creates elitism and tyrants.



I starting to believe that the Repubs and Dems are like "The World Wrestling Federation" and just a bunch of characters that put on a show .

the country is more right than ever, suposedly it is a result of the FAA decision about talk radio (about 20 years ago)and their extremist views.....gently pushing to the right...the long term goal is just that a gentle push right, with the immediate result almost unimportant...(which would account for the wacko republican primary)

and tolerance is just imaginiing youself in anothers situation and being able to comprehend a different viewpoint....and yes one must be very carefull to not develope a patronizing attitude, and one must check oneself constently...(i know from experiance)

let me put it this way...i formally had a compulsion or an obsession to drink...(a simple expainasion of alcholism if you will).....that does not mean its aright to carry on in a drunken manner...but suppose someone has a obsession to shoplift, i can understand this behavior and thank god i dont have this compulsion (or a worse one)..but we as a society have determined that compulsive thiefs need to be rehabilitated or separated from the rest of us...

and yes both parties are in collusion on all major issues because of lobbiest, however there is some differences on the MINOR issues that we fight over...it is quite humbling to admit that UI is infact a minor issue in the scope of the world...

tristen303 wrote:

ranbrow123 wrote:Now before I read any of that, can you promise me that it's not going to be inflammatory rhetoric coupled with personal attacks and a condescending tone directed at me because you think I associate democrat and therefore must automatically be wrong?

Seriously, let me know, because if you can't, I've got better things to do than read 7 paragraphs of that. Thanks.

You should follow your own advice

I keep my inflammatory rhetoric to 3 paragraphs or less, thank you very much.

ranbrow123 wrote:

tristen303 wrote:

ranbrow123 wrote:Now before I read any of that, can you promise me that it's not going to be inflammatory rhetoric coupled with personal attacks and a condescending tone directed at me because you think I associate democrat and therefore must automatically be wrong?

Seriously, let me know, because if you can't, I've got better things to do than read 7 paragraphs of that. Thanks.

You should follow your own advice

I keep my inflammatory rhetoric to 3 paragraphs or less, thank you very much.

Lets not fight amongst ourselves now. We are all we have left.