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Good info on SS and why you deserve it.

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Good info on SS and why you deserve it.

Post by gettheminNOVEMBER on Sun Sep 25, 2011 1:39 pm

This is a repost** From a friend who was in the financial world before he retired. This is very appropriate in light of what is going on !!! Remember, not only did you contribute to Social Security but your employer did too. It totaled 1...5% of your income before taxes. If you averaged only 30K over your 49 year working life, that’s close to $220,500. If you calculate the future value of $4,500 per year (yours & your employer’s contribution) at a simple 5% (less than what the govt. pays on the money that it borrows), after 49 years of working you’d have $892,919.98. If you took out only 3% per year, you would receive $26,787.60 per year and it would last better than 30 years, and that’s with no interest paid on that final amount on deposit! If you bought an annuity and it paid 4% per year, you’d have a lifetime income of $2,976.40 per month. The folks in Washington have pulled off a bigger Ponzi scheme than Bernie Madhoff ever had. Entitlement, my foot, I paid cash for my social security insurance!!!! Just because they borrowed the money, doesn't make my benefits some kind of charity or handout !! Congressional benefits, aka free healthcare, outrageous retirement packages, 67 paid holidays, three weeks paid vacation, unlimited paid sick days, now that's welfare, and they have the nerve to call my retirement entitlements !!!!!! They call Social Security and Medicare an entitlement even though most of us have been paying for it all our working lives and now when it’s time for us to collect, the government is running out of money. Why did the government borrow from it in the first place?

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Re: Good info on SS and why you deserve it.

Post by Guest on Sun Sep 25, 2011 3:59 pm

This is great information. And according to many, many economists, it may start hurting, but it's not anywhere near life support. What would help, stop borrowing from it and getting the 25 million unemployed back to work and paying into it again.

Thanks for posting this.

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Re: Good info on SS and why you deserve it.

Post by gettheminNOVEMBER on Mon Sep 26, 2011 6:05 pm

bounce

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Re: Good info on SS and why you deserve it.

Post by tristen303 on Tue Sep 27, 2011 2:41 am

Good job Get Them now you know why we call it a Ponzi scheme on the right

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Re: Good info on SS and why you deserve it.

Post by truth on Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:00 am

Anyone calling Social Security a "Ponzi scheme" is repeating a falsehood.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/sep/12/rick-perry/rick-perry-says-social-security-ponzi-scheme/


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Re: Good info on SS and why you deserve it.

Post by truth on Tue Sep 27, 2011 7:13 am

There is no reason why Social Security benefits have to be cut. If the government is short on money (whatever that means), there are plenty of ways to solve the problem without going after Social Security, which hasn't contributed a penny to the deficit or debt and in fact continues to run a surplus (counting the interest earned on its multi-trillion dollar Trust Fund, which is backed by the full faith and credit of the federal government).

The right wingers have hated Social Security from day one. They see their (grossly belated and shamelessly hypocritical) concern over the debt as a way to mask their long-desired elimination of the program.

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Re: Good info on SS and why you deserve it.

Post by gettheminNOVEMBER on Tue Sep 27, 2011 5:11 pm

tristen303 wrote:Good job Get Them now you know why we call it a Ponzi scheme on the right

Its a ponzi scheme because your party STOLE all the money and gave it to their rich friends. Do you read English?

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Re: Good info on SS and why you deserve it.

Post by JoanB on Tue Sep 27, 2011 6:25 pm

tristen303 wrote:Good job Get Them now you know why we call it a Ponzi scheme on the right

Because let me guess...you know better than the government what to do with that money and you would have invested all of that, and boy, the way Wall Street's been performing for us...

oops.

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Re: Good info on SS and why you deserve it.

Post by tristen303 on Wed Sep 28, 2011 12:59 am

I offer the following and further Joan I know you know better then everybody so please enlighten us on the value of a broken system that doesn't require people who are more successful then you to pay for you. And two market crashes in how many years vs. the BS of the apparent failed system we presently enjoy? Funny those Wall Street financial options were used to show what the value of SS (funny way to put down Wall Street) should be in this post; perhaps Wall Street is credible enough to only prove a point.

I must ask this, what’s it like to be in the party that doesn't make mistakes, is above reproach on anything and is smarter then the majority of Americans yet requires people more successful than them and you (and dumber by your standards) in your party to pay for your party’s ambitions...
I get that this is a far left site (it used to be just left but now it’s all talking points and propaganda with just a sprinkle of truth and educated opinion) but here’s some reality; the only money you can get or control isn’t yours….you scream tax payer money but since the rich pay more (the majority) then your side your mad that the rich got ripped off by the rich?
The other side of the coin that represents that money has been kicking your side’s ass in elections and will probably clean your clocks in 2012. Now I know your answer that everybody is stupid (so elitist) but if your side was so smart like you broadcast why the hell are you guys in the position that you’re in, and constantly having to return to the same group for money?
If you’re so smart and your side is so smart then logic dictates that it should be the other way around.

Just sayin…
Here is some info I came across and I argue both parties are at fault; especially the one that’s been in charge for how many years since the 30’s?
“It appears Democrats under Lyndon B Johnson,
This is a link to social security data including the total payout and total revenues since program inception
http://www.ssa.gov/history/pdf/4a2009.pd…

please double check my addition (because they don't include historical totals at the bottom for some reason)

the left column of page 9 expresses annual old age survivors benefits paid (in millions) 1937-2008
i came up with $9,031,581,000,000 in total old age survivors benefits paid according to their data
suffice it to say that we will have paid just over $10 trillion in benefits from 1937 to the end of 2010

the left column of pages 1 and 2 expresses annual revenues collected for old age survivors (in millions) 1937-2008
i came up with $11,302,276,000,000 in total old age survivors revenues according to their data
$13 trillion in revenues collected by old age survivors program from 1937 to the end of this year?

considering that social security is already drawing on general revenues, the difference of some $3 trillion between revenues and payouts means that not only was that money stolen (23% of revenues) from the program and spent elsewhere, but the old age survivors benefits program generated no interest earnings throughout the life of the plan

the biggest block of taxpayers is now transferring from payees to beneficiaries
YOU WOULD HAVE TO HAVE ROCKS IN YOUR HEAD TO DEFEND THIS PROGRAM'S HISTORY OR WANT TO INVEST IN IT

pages 3 and 4 express disability program revenues 1957-2008 ($1,579,893,000,000)
page 11 expresses the disabilty program benefit payouts 1957-2008 ($1,383,657,000,000)
disability also appears to be missing some $200 bill over the life of the program through 2008, so add over $115mil to that if played out to the end of 2010 (13% stolen with no interest generated by program)."

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Re: Good info on SS and why you deserve it.

Post by truth on Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:23 am

Sorry, Tristen, your link doesn't work for me.

In response to your rant, I submit this fact sheet:

http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/ProgData/fundFAQ.html

As you can see, all benefits come from the Trust Fund. All surplus SS contributions are credited to an interest bearing Trust Fund, expressly set aside for benefit payments. The money does not disappear (shees). It is invested in securities backed by the full faith and credit of the federal government.

Social Security has not added a penny to the debt. In fact, it continues to generate a surplus although down the road, that can change unless some very MINOR adjustments are made. Why do your Republican dogmatic purist friends never mention any of the modest proposals that will do the trick? Social Security is not financed by way of "class warfare" against the rich. In fact, the rich pay on only their first 100 grand or so, and in return they receive proportionatly higher benefits.

It's been a successful program for 75 years, all the while hated by right-wing purists. It has survived major wars and numerous economic downturns. There is no need to tear it apart.

Right-wingers seem to hate to pieces any pragmatic government program that works, and SS has worked and can very easily continue to work long after we are all gone. It's not going to be easy for the right-wing ideologically-blinded purists to hide their ultimate motives regarding SS. I think they'll have one Heck of a job coming up with winning solgans, buzz-words, and propaganda when it comes to SS.

By the way, the calculations as to how much a person could make by way of private retirement investment rest upon a huge number of dubious assumptions. I would address them, but I don't feel it's worth the effort.

In any case, plenty of private retirement plans are currently available. Unfortunately, huge numbers of people have been badly burned or completely wiped out by such "investments". Fortunately, they still have a guaranteed basic level of survival in their monthly SS check. Like an annuity, they have paid into it by way of a separate tax dedicated exclusively to SS, so they are entitled to its promised benefits. They are stealing from neither the General Fund nor "more successful people" nor the rich.


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Re: Good info on SS and why you deserve it.

Post by truth on Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:34 am

Here's a primer on Social Security, published by a non-partisan, non-elitist, member-supported organization the focuses entirely on Social Security and Medicare issues.

http://www.ncpssm.org/ss_primer/






Last edited by truth on Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:44 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Good info on SS and why you deserve it.

Post by truth on Wed Sep 28, 2011 2:39 am

So, Tristen, please provide the facts supporting why you feel Social Security is "broken", "failed", and/or a "Ponzi scheme".

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Re: Good info on SS and why you deserve it.

Post by tristen303 on Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:04 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/business/economy/25social.html

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/trsum/index.html

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1032063,00.html

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700060887/Social-Security-will-fail-without-some-reshaping.html

http://financialedge.investopedia.com/financial-edge/1209/Is-Social-Security-Set-To-Fail.aspx#axzz1ZH2pwfWC

http://www.sec.gov/answers/ponzi.htm

This is how I see it and what's worse is that the grand liberal plan is? Coming back to the rich, raise more money from the rich etc etc... For a group so hated and for a group of people so jealous of the rich it amazes me how much control they give them and how they must turn to them for everything……it’s f**cking sad and should be embarrassing.

I have no doubts based off the far left of center that now populates this site that nothing will resonate, but it is what it is on this site. I don’t think SS should be destroyed which is why I vote the way I do but the problems need to be addressed better then “progressives” are doing.
Now shot it down, correct my spelling, laugh at me from posting via a cell phone say some BS that wouldn’t be said face to face (not you truth but some cowards on this site embolden by hiding via the web with their insults) it’s laughable.
Truth I like your posts you have educated me on a variety of subjects and I thank you, between Lendme, Get them and you (others to I cannot think of right now) I am almost thinking of becoming a Dem but your far left side is crazier, more ignorant and more insulting everyday…..hardly the open arms, open ideologically party of equals that’s advertised.
In the end thus far the snake I know (my party doesn’t have all or any of the answers) is better then the snake that changes its scales every hour.

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Re: Good info on SS and why you deserve it.

Post by lendmeflight2 on Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:34 pm

My dear friend Tristen.
My problem is not your statement, technically you are correct, but your perception of the situation.

This is how you seem to view the situation:
You tend to view the rich as some kind of prime mover that starts the spark that makes this country run. The people who are not successful, for whatever reason, hate the rich because they are rich. However, they need to ask for hand outs from the rich to survive. To you this seems to be a hypocrisy.

Here is how I view the exact same scenario.

The rich are successful. They have plenty of money. Other people were not as successful for whatever reason. Maybe they were lazy, incompetent, God hated them, they have a mental illness, it doesn't matter for this argument. Rich people get rich often using programs like pell grants to go to college but when they get rich they want to cut those very programs that helped them simply to save money that they would never miss anyway.
Let's use an extreme example. Let's say that we tax everyone that makes over $10 million at 90%. We will say this is after exemptions just to make the math easier.

You, Tristen, are a terrible multi-millionare and made only the $10 million. All of your millionaire friends laugh at you for this fact but that's ok. The government then taxes you at 90% so that lazy, worthless, people, like me, can go to the doctor if they need to and my children, that I can't afford to have, can go to college. At the end of the day you STILL have a million dollars left and that is enough. You can live on a million dollars each year, anyone can.

The rich can and should be HAPPY to pay 40% in taxes to keep programs going that usually helped them get to where they are so that maybe other people could get somewhere too.


Just for the record, I don't hate rich people. I actually know a few people that are rich, by my standards at least, and they are mostly pretty nice people.

What I hate is privilege. I hate that often rich people, especially those born into money, assume that they "deserve" to not have to contribute to social security because they will never need it. These are the people that are most often the problem.



Last edited by lendmeflight2 on Wed Sep 28, 2011 5:36 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)

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Re: Good info on SS and why you deserve it.

Post by JoanB on Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:35 pm

I did something to make you really angry/hurt, tristen, and I'm sorry. You make me mad sometimes too, but you're not my enemy, and sometimes I forget that.

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Re: Good info on SS and why you deserve it.

Post by Guest on Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Let's say I am Bill Gates, for instance. I started a company that is making billions. I had the idea, I got the funding, I put up the collateral and took the chance of losing everything. I do deserve to make the big bucks. However, I made them, because I sourced the right people who didn't have my knowledge, but had the knowledge to source the talent to run and make the products, source the materials and handle the everyday business end of the company. Even though I still should make the large profits, I should pay the people who help make this company successful a FAIR WAGE. At the end of the year, just because I made those big bucks and had the idea, I should not be taxed less percentage wise than someone who makes 15% of what I make, it has nothing to do with what I make, it's fair taxation on what I make. If we are all paying a percentage of our wages equally, it's balanced. Lobbying and negotiating for keeping business and personal taxes and combining them, creating loopholes to keep their businesses here and incorporating them elsewhere as well, that's the scheme. You want to have a business here, this is your tax. Taking their accounts abroad is now starting to have an adverse effect. It cannot be fair for only a select few in this country to continually get financial breaks that are not needed when the balance could really use them. Our problem has always been, we give it away. Last December is a perfect example. The Republican's continually told us not extending the Bush Cuts would hurt job creation, well, like the banks, we didn't make the deal, you only get them when you prove the jobs were created and can show proof of hire.

I don't really think anyone hates the wealthy, they dislike the "act". They continually refer to the unemployed and the less fortunate as lazy and waiting for entitlements. I think, the wealthy, have now become what they detest, entitled. They now feel, all breaks should come to them, for the sole reason that they are wealthy. I say, they need to earn it, just as they feel we do. Create jobs, invest, lend and get the country back to work.

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Re: Good info on SS and why you deserve it.

Post by gettheminNOVEMBER on Wed Sep 28, 2011 9:52 pm

MaryKay wrote:Let's say I am Bill Gates, for instance. I started a company that is making billions. I had the idea, I got the funding, I put up the collateral and took the chance of losing everything. I do deserve to make the big bucks. However, I made them, because I sourced the right people who didn't have my knowledge, but had the knowledge to source the talent to run and make the products, source the materials and handle the everyday business end of the company. Even though I still should make the large profits, I should pay the people who help make this company successful a FAIR WAGE. At the end of the year, just because I made those big bucks and had the idea, I should not be taxed less percentage wise than someone who makes 15% of what I make, it has nothing to do with what I make, it's fair taxation on what I make. If we are all paying a percentage of our wages equally, it's balanced. Lobbying and negotiating for keeping business and personal taxes and combining them, creating loopholes to keep their businesses here and incorporating them elsewhere as well, that's the scheme. You want to have a business here, this is your tax. Taking their accounts abroad is now starting to have an adverse effect. It cannot be fair for only a select few in this country to continually get financial breaks that are not needed when the balance could really use them. Our problem has always been, we give it away. Last December is a perfect example. The Republican's continually told us not extending the Bush Cuts would hurt job creation, well, like the banks, we didn't make the deal, you only get them when you prove the jobs were created and can show proof of hire.

I don't really think anyone hates the wealthy, they dislike the "act". They continually refer to the unemployed and the less fortunate as lazy and waiting for entitlements. I think, the wealthy, have now become what they detest, entitled. They now feel, all breaks should come to them, for the sole reason that they are wealthy. I say, they need to earn it, just as they feel we do. Create jobs, invest, lend and get the country back to work.

His wife was on the Colbert show, explaining why the rich should pay back some now that we need it. They gave away 1/3, I think around 22 billion? Not exactly sure how much.

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Re: Good info on SS and why you deserve it.

Post by TR11005 on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:05 pm

It all goes back to sharing. I once had a spoiled rich friend when I was young. He would never share no matter how many toys he had. After awhile, I gave up being friends with him. It was OK for me to share my toys with him, even if he broke them. Nothing said.

Many rich people do believe in sharing and give much away to charity, church projects and many other good social programs. The problem now is that some stingy rich have to ruin it for the rest of society.

Someone needs to take these rich brats and exposed them in public. Let them cry. We should then take even more when they do. Let them know it is not acceptable to just take, take, and take. At some point you need to give back or millions of us just might take it all.

That is why many of us are totally fed up. The time is now!

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Re: Good info on SS and why you deserve it.

Post by truth on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:14 pm

tristen,

Thank you for your kind words. I think it's beneficial for us to hear your views, much as I disagree with some of them. By the way, I don't consider typos to have anything to do with content, and the content of your posts shows that you, like all of us, are trying to make sense out of all the distressing things that are currently confronting us. I don't think any one of us knows the clear and certain way foreward.

I admit that there are people who are jealous of the rich and even hate them. It's an easy thing to do when someone is at the bottom and facing a grim future. At the same time, I feel that few people on the left want to grab huge sums from the wealthy in order to hand it to people who want to freeload. The tax rates upon the top 1-2% are at historic lows. Programs like UI, Medicare, Food Stamps, disability insurance, etc. are not the high life (nor are they free from a measure of abuse). I think that as a society concerned with the general welfare, they are programs we need. They are a major part of what makes this country advanced, stable, and even civilized. I think we can have these programs (justly, prudently, and efficiently administered) without killing our market economy or discouraging entrepreneurial risk-taking. My belief is that it can be both/and rather than either/or.


Last edited by truth on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:33 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Good info on SS and why you deserve it.

Post by truth on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:25 pm

This may be a crazy idea, and I've never heard anyone else suggest it, but perhaps, up to a certain point, higher tax rates on high earnings might actually be an incentive for the wealthy. If I want to have a million dollars in my pocket by the end of the year, won't I have to try much harder with a tax rate at 40% than with a tax rate at 20%. Wouldn't I have to expand my business by investing more and hiring more?


Last edited by truth on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:30 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Good info on SS and why you deserve it.

Post by gettheminNOVEMBER on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:26 pm

tristen303 wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/business/economy/25social.html

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/trsum/index.html

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1032063,00.html

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700060887/Social-Security-will-fail-without-some-reshaping.html

http://financialedge.investopedia.com/financial-edge/1209/Is-Social-Security-Set-To-Fail.aspx#axzz1ZH2pwfWC

http://www.sec.gov/answers/ponzi.htm

This is how I see it and what's worse is that the grand liberal plan is? Coming back to the rich, raise more money from the rich etc etc... For a group so hated and for a group of people so jealous of the rich it amazes me how much control they give them and how they must turn to them for everything……it’s f**cking sad and should be embarrassing.

I have no doubts based off the far left of center that now populates this site that nothing will resonate, but it is what it is on this site. I don’t think SS should be destroyed which is why I vote the way I do but the problems need to be addressed better then “progressives” are doing.
Now shot it down, correct my spelling, laugh at me from posting via a cell phone say some BS that wouldn’t be said face to face (not you truth but some cowards on this site embolden by hiding via the web with their insults) it’s laughable.
Truth I like your posts you have educated me on a variety of subjects and I thank you, between Lendme, Get them and you (others to I cannot think of right now) I am almost thinking of becoming a Dem but your far left side is crazier, more ignorant and more insulting everyday…..hardly the open arms, open ideologically party of equals that’s advertised.
In the end thus far the snake I know (my party doesn’t have all or any of the answers) is better then the snake that changes its scales every hour.

Dude, bottomline is they STOLE the money. Bush and Cheney used that cash to pay for the rich tax breaks and now the bill is due. Bernie Sanders has a plan up to make it solvent for the next 75 years. Face it the GOP wants to privatize it and what do you think for?


Last edited by gettheminNOVEMBER on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:29 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Good info on SS and why you deserve it.

Post by gettheminNOVEMBER on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:28 pm

truth wrote:This may be a crazy idea, and I've never heard anyone else suggest it, but perhaps higher tax rates on wealth might actually be an incentive for the wealthy. If I want to have a million dollars in my pocket by the end of the year, won't I have to try much harder with a tax rate at 40% than with a tax rate at 20%. Wouldn't I have to expand more, invest more, and hire more?

And if everyone hires demand goes up and so would your profits. More people buying your gods and services. Making your business more sucessful in the long run.

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Re: Good info on SS and why you deserve it.

Post by truth on Wed Sep 28, 2011 10:36 pm

Thank you, getthem. Maybe it's not so crazy.

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Re: Good info on SS and why you deserve it.

Post by JoanB on Wed Sep 28, 2011 11:45 pm

Also, when you don't tax wealth, people have a tendency to hold on to their money instead of using it for capital improvements, R&D, or hiring--the kind of things that create jobs. Hanging on to their money is what we're watching happen right now.

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Re: Good info on SS and why you deserve it.

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