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ICE Auditing Companies' Hiring Records

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ICE Auditing Companies' Hiring Records

Post by Guest on Wed Jun 15, 2011 2:36 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110615/ap_on_re_us/us_immigration_employer_crackdown

ATLANTA – Federal immigration authorities are beginning a new round of investigations designed to make sure businesses hire only people authorized to work in the U.S., focusing this time on companies vital to national security and other government and economic functions.
U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement said Wednesday it is notifying 1,000 companies that it will inspect their I-9s, the forms new employees complete, along with documents the workers provide to show they are eligible to work in the U.S.
"The inspections will touch on employers of all sizes and in every state in the nation, with an emphasis on businesses related to critical infrastructure and key resources," ICE said in a statement.

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Re: ICE Auditing Companies' Hiring Records

Post by americatheneedy on Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:03 pm

Wonderful!!!! If the are hiring illegal immigrants inside of unemployed Americans they should be sent to prison!

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Re: ICE Auditing Companies' Hiring Records

Post by lendmeflight2 on Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:07 pm

Finally they are I focusing on the real culprits. Focusing on the immigrants will never solve the problem. You have to focus on companies that hire them.

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Re: ICE Auditing Companies' Hiring Records

Post by jchapman on Wed Jun 15, 2011 6:17 pm

What's this? ICE raids? affraid
Must be getting close to election time.

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Re: ICE Auditing Companies' Hiring Records

Post by lendmeflight2 on Wed Jun 15, 2011 8:36 pm

What a coincidence right?

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Re: ICE Auditing Companies' Hiring Records

Post by Guest on Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:13 pm

This is true, happening here in AZ, they are cracking down on our restaurants, amazing how many have been cooking and doing the kitchen clean up for years. I always wondered why we got those chips and salsa free!!

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Re: ICE Auditing Companies' Hiring Records

Post by jchapman on Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:13 pm

Have you folks wondered how this happens in spite of the e-verify program? I have just learned of the legal method that an employer is supposed to follow when filing an I-9, even though the procedure hasn't always been exactly followed over the years since it became effective on November 06, 1986. Yeah, it's been around that long, & November 06, 1986 was on a Thursday.
1st, an I-9 is not supposed to be filled out BEFORE the employer makes an actual offer of employment, & the employee accepts the offer. You might have filled out an I-9 when you filled out an application, particularly at a temp service, but by the letter of the law, the temp service was not supposed to do that.
2nd, this is a situation that is more likely to occur with a temp service that with a full-time job. If the job assignment is to last more than 3 days, the employee may wait until as late as 3 business days after the 1st day of work to fill out the I-9 & at which time present documents proving that he/she is authorized to work in the United States. If the job assignment is to only last 3 days or less, the employee must complete the I-9 process BEFORE beginning the 1st day of work for pay.
This information can be found in the USCIS employer handbook explaining the I-9 process.
Am I by myself in finding holes that would make it possible for employers to work illegal workers, especially if the worker uses fake documents? One thing for sure, it can make it an inconvenience for legal workers, particularly with mutiple trips to a temp service's office.


Last edited by jchapman on Thu Jun 16, 2011 9:45 pm; edited 5 times in total (Reason for editing : typo)

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Re: ICE Auditing Companies' Hiring Records

Post by jchapman on Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:23 pm

jchapman wrote:Have you folks wondered how this happens in spite of the e-verify program? I have just learned of the legal method that an employer is supposed to follow when filing an I-9, even though the procedure hasn't always been exactly followed over the years since it became effective on November 06, 1986. Yeah, it's been around that long, & November 06, 1986 was on a Thursday.
1st, an I-9 is not supposed to be filled out BEFORE the employer makes an actual offer of employment, & the employee accepts the offer. You might have filled out an I-9 when you filled out an application, particularly at a temp service, but by the letter of the law, the temp service was not supposed to do that.
I just thought I'd bring up this part of the last thing that I posted here, this part in particular. Note that an employer is not supposed to have a new employee fill out an I-9 before he offers a position & the employee accepts the offer. This took effect on November 06, 1986. Despite this, neumerous times in the 1990s & the 2000s, I have filled out job applications at staffing agencies & temporary services, & if I did fill out an I-9, I did so the day I applied, even though according to this, they were not supposed to do that until they offered you an assignment & you accepted it. Well. as far as that's concerned, everything worked out OK. Now what harm could there be in filling out the I-9 & providing the legal documents when you fill out the application? The only harm I see is that it gives the staffing agency more time to verify that you are legally authorized to work in the United States. And oh yeah, it prevents the staffing agency from potentially wasting time with an illegal worker trying to use fake documents while they're trying to fill a job.
Now, after nearly 25 years, all of a sudden area staffing companies have to follow the letter of the law on this. In fact, they advertise openings to get the applicant to come in & fill out an "application", that turns out to be a questionaire, which means at least 1 more trip back to the staffing service office. Then, if you're called back, they imply that they have positions coming open & want you to come in, but it's really just for an interview, even though they don't send you out then, they say I'll call you when an opening comes up. Then later, if you're lucky enough, they call you back & offer an assignment. If you accept, then you come into the office, produce documents, & go to work. But it's not uncommon for the assignment to be at such a distance from where you live, that you can't make money on it. They tell the applicant nothing about what is about to happen beforehand. Mysteriously, alot of local companies have begun to deal with staffing agencies that are a significant distance from my home area & the worksite.
Obviously, the expense of having to make repeated trips to a staffing service could be a backbreaker to someone that has been out of work for a long time, particularly a 99er. Could the staffing agency be using this law as a tool to discriminate against the long term unemployed? One thing for sure if you drive by a construction site, you can get an idea how well it works at keeping illegal immigrants from stealing our jobs.
Is there anybody else out there that thinks that an employer should be allowed to do the I-9 process when the applicant applies for a job, if not actually required to do so? This would be particularly helpful with a temp service, as well as somebody that applies to a temp service, as well as make it more effective at enforcing our immigrant worker laws. If you think so, as do I, let's get up a petition that the USCIS make a change to this particular regulation.


Last edited by jchapman on Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:37 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: ICE Auditing Companies' Hiring Records

Post by New_Wave_Princess on Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:29 pm

Great news but doesn't do as much as it could. I've worked in restaurants and they usually hire illegals under the table.

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Re: ICE Auditing Companies' Hiring Records

Post by americatheneedy on Mon Jun 20, 2011 6:40 pm

If you are caught working here or hiring here illegally, you should lose your business license and face a mandatory year in prison.

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Re: ICE Auditing Companies' Hiring Records

Post by jchapman on Mon Jun 20, 2011 8:58 pm

If you would like to read about the I-9 process go to www.uscis.gov then point to & click I-9 Central. At the bottom right of the page is an employer handbook in pdf form, with a picture of 2 men & 2 women, point to the picture & click.
There is no doubt in my mind that the regulation that you wait until an employee has been offered & has acceped an offer of work to fill out an I-9 is being used by some companies as a tool to practice other kinds of discrimination, mainly against the long-term unemployed. The e-verify system appears to be a PR stunt to make the public think that they've fixed the problem of companies using illegal workers, when it's really an attempt to have it both ways, There are some employers that if given the choice, would rather have illegal workers on jobs that certain legal workers would like to have, than not be able to use this regulation as an excuse to exclude some workers that they are fully aware are authorized to work in the United States, some of which were born in the USA & have lived here all of their lives. We are fully aware of that.
I plant to get up a petition that employers be allowed, if not required, to do the I-9 process when the worker applies for a job. This wouldn't just in most cases be more convenoent for the applicant, but give the employer more time to verify his/her documents. Anybody agree with me on this issiue?


Last edited by jchapman on Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:09 pm; edited 5 times in total (Reason for editing : typo)

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Re: ICE Auditing Companies' Hiring Records

Post by Guest on Mon Jun 20, 2011 9:15 pm

This whole thing is a catch-22 situation. A few years back, in the Fall River area of MA, an area that still has a very high rate of unemployment, a large manufacturing plant was raided by ICE. Illegal workers were detained, the owners of the company received short prison sentences or probation, but the majority of the legal workers, several hundred, lost their jobs because the company closed. Also, the children of the detained workers were put into MA foster homes, putting a strain on the human services budget in the state. Yes, the illegal immigrants were forced out, but 3 times as may legitimate workers also lost their jobs, and with the economy in that area, I bet they are still unemployed.

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Re: ICE Auditing Companies' Hiring Records

Post by TR11005 on Mon Jun 20, 2011 10:13 pm

Filling out a I-9 form gives the employer and staffing company your birth date at the time of interview. That should be completely illegal., anytime. I am 62 years old, I collect early SS because I was forced to. Why should I have to give them this information. It is bad enough your long termed Unemployed.

It is not necessary to fill out these forms along with Federal and State Tax forms, until your offered an assignment or position.

Under the Americans with Disabilities Act you don't discuss medical conditions or disabilities, until the job requirements are fully discussed. Enough! Enough! I am tired of the BS.

Today a Staffing agency wanted to charge $35 for a drug test and background check out of my first paycheck, if I accepted an assignment. I gave them the third degree. Nobody in Ohio does this, check with the state department of Labor, I believe that is illegal!

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Re: ICE Auditing Companies' Hiring Records

Post by jchapman on Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:34 pm

I don't know about laws in Ohio, but an employer can withhold the cost of a background check & drug test, if you sign a waiver. They can't compell you to pay up front.
My point is, that according to regulations in the Handbook for Employers on the I-9 Central page of the USDCIS, the employer is not supposed to have the employee fill out an I-9 & present documentation untill he/she has been offered a position & accepted the position. This could be days, weeks, or months after filling out an application. Obviously, if an employer has the applicant fill out an I-9 & present documentation at the time he/she applies, there would be more time to verify the documents.
An employer can check criminal records, credit reports, snoop around to find out what you post on a Facebook page or blog, even if you post annonymously, etc. On another post on this site "29 Things Your HR Director Won't Tell You", one of those things was "All Companies Have Their Blacklists". Companies definitely check into that, & alot of them honor each others' blacklists. They are afforded plenty of time to do that, but legally, they're forced into making an at-the-moment decision about an applicants legal status to work in the United States. This has actually been in effect since 1986, but it has suddenly become important lately. It can force applicants into making multiple trips to a stafing agency.
Now which is more important, a ludicris regulation the gives staffing agencies a loophole that they can use to jerk applicants around, or what definitely appears to be a more effective means of keeping illegal workers from being placed on jobs that legal workers are entitled to?

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Re: ICE Auditing Companies' Hiring Records

Post by USA Citizen on Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:05 pm

The White House just issued an executive order giving amnesty for illegal aliens who are enrolled in an education center or if their relatives have volunteered for the US military.

White House loosens border rules for 2012 elections

"The Daily Caller" 06/20/2011 | Updated: 7:31 PM 06/20/2011

The new rules were quietly announced Friday with a new memo from top officials at the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency. The “prosecutorial discretion” memo says officials need not enforce immigration laws if illegal immigrants are enrolled in an education center or if their relatives have volunteered for the US military.

'They’re pushing the [immigration] agents to be even more lax, to go further in not enforcing the law,” said Kris Kobach, Kansas’ secretary of state. “At a time when millions of Americans are unemployed and looking for work, this is more bad news coming from the Obama administration… [if the administration] really cared about putting Americans back to work, it would be vigorously enforcing the law,” he said.'

http://www.alipac.us/article-6361-thread-1-0.html

Mr. President. We beg your pardon. The unemployed are guilty of being out of work and have no income to pay taxes. Please forgive us for being unemployed and stop punishing us. Most of the unemployed are too old to get jobs in the military. Please issue an executive order that makes E-verify mandatory for all people working in the U.S. That way 15 million Americans could go back to work and 15 million illegal aliens could go back home.
Thank you, Mr. President.

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Re: ICE Auditing Companies' Hiring Records

Post by Injeun on Tue Jun 21, 2011 11:22 pm

USA Citizen wrote:The White House just issued an executive order giving amnesty for illegal aliens who are enrolled in an education center or if their relatives have volunteered for the US military.

White House loosens border rules for 2012 elections

"The Daily Caller" 06/20/2011 | Updated: 7:31 PM 06/20/2011

The new rules were quietly announced Friday with a new memo from top officials at the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agency. The “prosecutorial discretion” memo says officials need not enforce immigration laws if illegal immigrants are enrolled in an education center or if their relatives have volunteered for the US military.

'They’re pushing the [immigration] agents to be even more lax, to go further in not enforcing the law,” said Kris Kobach, Kansas’ secretary of state. “At a time when millions of Americans are unemployed and looking for work, this is more bad news coming from the Obama administration… [if the administration] really cared about putting Americans back to work, it would be vigorously enforcing the law,” he said.'

http://www.alipac.us/article-6361-thread-1-0.html

Mr. President. We beg your pardon. The unemployed are guilty of being out of work and have no income to pay taxes. Please forgive us for being unemployed and stop punishing us. Most of the unemployed are too old to get jobs in the military. Please issue an executive order that makes E-verify mandatory for all people working in the U.S. That way 15 million Americans could go back to work and 15 million illegal aliens could go back home.
Thank you, Mr. President.

I very much agree. Nice post. The President, if he cares, should also promote a tempory suspension of work visas which are currently a million a year or something like that.

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Re: ICE Auditing Companies' Hiring Records

Post by lendmeflight2 on Wed Jun 22, 2011 2:08 am

Actually Obama has been in support of E-verify since day one, every time it comes to a vote the republicans filibustered it.

In related news, I read somewhere that E-verify is actually in error as much as 50% of the time. It reports illegals as eligible to work in country and it flags a lot of citizens as not able to work.

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Re: ICE Auditing Companies' Hiring Records

Post by Injeun on Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:00 am

The Obama admin won't address illegal immigration, won't uphold the laws, won't allow individual States to address the issue, sued Arizona for attempting to do so, supports amnesty, and is graded an F at NumbersUSA on illegal immigration in general. As for the accuracy of Everify, it is 99.7% accurate, with the option and a reasonable window of time for individuals to address or clear up its findings if challenged.

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Re: ICE Auditing Companies' Hiring Records

Post by Guest on Wed Jun 22, 2011 10:10 am

Injeun wrote:The Obama admin won't address illegal immigration, won't uphold the laws, won't allow individual States to address the issue, sued Arizona for attempting to do so, supports amnesty, and is graded an F at NumbersUSA on illegal immigration in general. As for the accuracy of Everify, it is 99.7% accurate, with the option and a reasonable window of time for individuals to address or clear up its findings if challenged.
For the reasons Lendme stated above regarding the inaccuracy of EVerify, Rhode Island repealed the mandatory use of it by employers via an Executive Order on Feb. 1 this year. I think our governor and state legislators did their homework on it before repealing.

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Re: ICE Auditing Companies' Hiring Records

Post by Injeun on Wed Jun 22, 2011 12:04 pm

DesperateInRI wrote:
Injeun wrote:The Obama admin won't address illegal immigration, won't uphold the laws, won't allow individual States to address the issue, sued Arizona for attempting to do so, supports amnesty, and is graded an F at NumbersUSA on illegal immigration in general. As for the accuracy of Everify, it is 99.7% accurate, with the option and a reasonable window of time for individuals to address or clear up its findings if challenged.
For the reasons Lendme stated above regarding the inaccuracy of EVerify, Rhode Island repealed the mandatory use of it by employers via an Executive Order on Feb. 1 this year. I think our governor and state legislators did their homework on it before repealing.

I don't know about RI. But I do think that it's more likely that pro-amnesty, pro cheap labor, and pro latino groups disseminating false information are likely behind your Govs decision. Furthermore, the SCOTUS has twice recently decided on behalf of everify. Here are some exact stats from the US Citizenship and Immigration Services website:

These statistics are based on E-Verify cases in Fiscal Year 2010 (October 2009 through September 2010). Statistics may not appear to sum to 100 percent (or to the subtotals listed below) due to rounding.


Most employees are automatically confirmed as work authorized.

98.3 percent of employees are automatically confirmed as authorized to work ("work authorized") either instantly or within 24 hours, requiring no employee or employer action.
1.7 percent of employees receive initial system mismatches.

Of the 1.7% of employees who receive initial system mismatches:

0.3 percent are later confirmed as work authorized after contesting and resolving the mismatch.
1.43 percent are not found work authorized.

Of the 1.43% of employees not found to be work authorized:

1.3 percent of employees who receive initial mismatches do not contest the mismatch either because they do not choose to or are unaware of the opportunity to contest and as a result are not found work authorized. The E-Verify program closely monitors uncontested mismatches and actively reaches out to employers to ensure that they are aware of their responsibility to inform employees of the right to contest.
0.01 percent of employees who receive initial mismatches contest the mismatch and are not found work authorized.
0.14 percent of employees with initial mismatches are unresolved because the employer closed the cases as "self-terminated" or as requiring further action by either the employer or employee at the end of FY10.

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=7c579589cdb76210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=7c579589cdb76210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD

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Re: ICE Auditing Companies' Hiring Records

Post by New_Wave_Princess on Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:07 pm

I think it's a disgrace Obama wants amnesty. The only amnesty I would support are those in the military. Otherwise, no. I read something online where it states he wants to legalize most of the illegals here, which I say bs.

Whether one wants to admit it or not, illegals are ruining our system. They bypass people who want to come here legally and wait. They often take advantage of the social programs. They take many jobs that others really want like construction. They require more companies to offer bilingual people, such as WIC and public aid. And so on. Most of the illegals are barely literate in Spanish, let alone learning another language and most have little education. Yet we want more of them?

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Re: ICE Auditing Companies' Hiring Records

Post by USA Citizen on Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:28 pm

Congressional Democrats are trying to block E-verify:
E-Verify Hearing Becomes a Discussion of Who Supports America's Unemployed and Who Supports Illegal Alien Workers

By Jonathan Osborne, Thursday, June 16, 2011, 1:14 AM EDT
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/nusablog/jonosborne/june-17-2011/e-verify-hearing-becomes-discussion-who-supports-americas-unemploye

At least 7 million people are working in the United States illegally. Those jobs should go to American workers. The Democrats and some unions are against E-verify. The Democrats expect the unemployed to vote for them because they are the lesser of two evils. The next election needs to be about issues because the Republicans and Democrats are not helping the unemployed. Issue One: E-verify. For or against? Will you vote for E-verify and return 7 million unemployed Americans to work or will you vote against it so that illegal aliens get the vote and join your party? Obama just signed an Executive Order giving amnesty to many illegal aliens. He could just as easily sign an Executive Order to make E-verify mandatory and return 7 million unemployed Americans to work. Just think: One Executive Order and there would be 7 million jobs available to Americans. And, their paychecks would be spent in the U.S., which would promote more job growth here instead of being sent to foreign countries. The Democrats and unions are fighting against E-verify and unemployed Americans, but Obama could take leadership and do what is right. FDR did it, but Obama is no FDR, is he?

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Re: ICE Auditing Companies' Hiring Records

Post by Guest on Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:32 pm

Injeun wrote:
DesperateInRI wrote:
Injeun wrote:The Obama admin won't address illegal immigration, won't uphold the laws, won't allow individual States to address the issue, sued Arizona for attempting to do so, supports amnesty, and is graded an F at NumbersUSA on illegal immigration in general. As for the accuracy of Everify, it is 99.7% accurate, with the option and a reasonable window of time for individuals to address or clear up its findings if challenged.
For the reasons Lendme stated above regarding the inaccuracy of EVerify, Rhode Island repealed the mandatory use of it by employers via an Executive Order on Feb. 1 this year. I think our governor and state legislators did their homework on it before repealing.

I don't know about RI. But I do think that it's more likely that pro-amnesty, pro cheap labor, and pro latino groups disseminating false information are likely behind your Govs decision. Furthermore, the SCOTUS has twice recently decided on behalf of everify. Here are some exact stats from the US Citizenship and Immigration Services website:

These statistics are based on E-Verify cases in Fiscal Year 2010 (October 2009 through September 2010). Statistics may not appear to sum to 100 percent (or to the subtotals listed below) due to rounding.


Most employees are automatically confirmed as work authorized.

98.3 percent of employees are automatically confirmed as authorized to work ("work authorized") either instantly or within 24 hours, requiring no employee or employer action.
1.7 percent of employees receive initial system mismatches.

Of the 1.7% of employees who receive initial system mismatches:

0.3 percent are later confirmed as work authorized after contesting and resolving the mismatch.
1.43 percent are not found work authorized.

Of the 1.43% of employees not found to be work authorized:

1.3 percent of employees who receive initial mismatches do not contest the mismatch either because they do not choose to or are unaware of the opportunity to contest and as a result are not found work authorized. The E-Verify program closely monitors uncontested mismatches and actively reaches out to employers to ensure that they are aware of their responsibility to inform employees of the right to contest.
0.01 percent of employees who receive initial mismatches contest the mismatch and are not found work authorized.
0.14 percent of employees with initial mismatches are unresolved because the employer closed the cases as "self-terminated" or as requiring further action by either the employer or employee at the end of FY10.

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=7c579589cdb76210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD&vgnextchannel=7c579589cdb76210VgnVCM100000b92ca60aRCRD

As an E-Verify Designated Agent, we have helped many of our clients handle with a number of E-Verify issues and have been happy with the willingness of USCIS to improve the system.

I think that report may be a bit biased.

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Re: ICE Auditing Companies' Hiring Records

Post by New_Wave_Princess on Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:39 pm

The Dems want the illegals because they will vote Democrats. Forget the fact that many unemployed normally vote Democrat.

I regret voting for Obama.

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Re: ICE Auditing Companies' Hiring Records

Post by Guest on Wed Jun 22, 2011 6:43 pm

USA Citizen wrote:Congressional Democrats are trying to block E-verify:
E-Verify Hearing Becomes a Discussion of Who Supports America's Unemployed and Who Supports Illegal Alien Workers

By Jonathan Osborne, Thursday, June 16, 2011, 1:14 AM EDT
http://www.numbersusa.com/content/nusablog/jonosborne/june-17-2011/e-verify-hearing-becomes-discussion-who-supports-americas-unemploye

At least 7 million people are working in the United States illegally. Those jobs should go to American workers. The Democrats and some unions are against E-verify. The Democrats expect the unemployed to vote for them because they are the lesser of two evils. The next election needs to be about issues because the Republicans and Democrats are not helping the unemployed. Issue One: E-verify. For or against? Will you vote for E-verify and return 7 million unemployed Americans to work or will you vote against it so that illegal aliens get the vote and join your party? Obama just signed an Executive Order giving amnesty to many illegal aliens. He could just as easily sign an Executive Order to make E-verify mandatory and return 7 million unemployed Americans to work. Just think: One Executive Order and there would be 7 million jobs available to Americans. And, their paychecks would be spent in the U.S., which would promote more job growth here instead of being sent to foreign countries. The Democrats and unions are fighting against E-verify and unemployed Americans, but Obama could take leadership and do what is right. FDR did it, but Obama is no FDR, is he?
The first official act of the governor of my state, former US Senator Lincoln Chafee [R]-RI was to repeal mandatory EVerify. It is not just the Dems. The Governor is now an Independent, however, switched affiliatons in order to be on the ballot last November. He comes from a very strong Republican family in this state.

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Re: ICE Auditing Companies' Hiring Records

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