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Is this job discrimination: religion?

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Is this job discrimination: religion?

Post by New_Wave_Princess on Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:31 pm

I have been applying for various religious based jobs, including through the Diocese and a local Bible company near me. In the case of the Diocese they require one to be a practicing Catholic, at the bible organization they require one to be a Christian.

I am in fact a practicing Catholic. I attend church, have become involved with the choir and volunteer, and practice the views, though don't personally agree with all of them. I am currently looking for a spouse and he must be a practicing Catholic too which means he can't be divorced (annulled is fine), must not have kids (under no circumstances can he be a divorced or never married dad), etc. I won't even live with a man until he proposes. I don't care how others live, I will not budge from living like this. Btw, in the past I didn't live like this and lived with a man but have changed my life.

However, I will admit I am mixed on this. Part of me says I understand why religion discrimination is fine, but part of me doesn't think it's right. Being religious based they want people who live like the company values, but at the same time I don't know if I like an employer telling me how to live my life.

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Re: Is this job discrimination: religion?

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:55 pm

The job working for the Diocese can require you to live by the Catholic rules. There was a case in RI two years ago, that went to the state supreme court, of a teacher in a Catholic school who lost her job when she decided to marry a divorced man. She was fired, sued and lost. Had the man been a widower, it would have been different.

As far as the Bible company, if it is a corp. with no church affiliation, they can't require the same standards as the Church.

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Re: Is this job discrimination: religion?

Post by New_Wave_Princess on Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:00 pm

That is interesting that it does depend on if it's a religion or not. I know several years ago I applied as a teacher at a Catholic school and they required me to sign a form stating I would not be involved in pro choice groups if hired. Ironically, I was involved with NARAL though I never did this publicly so there was no proof.

I vaguely remember that lawsuit or one like it. I also remember a woman suing a diocese because she was fired after she got pregnant as a single mom.

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Re: Is this job discrimination: religion?

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:42 pm

Interesting isn't it. Yet millions were spent all up and down the east coast for two decades to cover up the criminal behavior of some priests, who, at least in Philadelphia, have JUST been removed from service in the parishes. Although, discrimination, I don't know, you do have to agree to their terms, it's not that they surprise you with them after the fact. I can tell you it may depend on the Diocese, my neice was pregnant and taught at one of our oldest Catholic High Schools in Phila and it was not a problem there, however, they have a seriously bad problem getting qualified teachers here because the pay scale, compared to the scale of the public schools is huge.

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Re: Is this job discrimination: religion?

Post by Guest on Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:03 pm

I have two sisters who teach ("taught" in June - being laid-off) in a Catholic school, and have for over 25 years. One has been married for 33 years, so no issues, the youngest one has been a widow for over 13 years with 4 children. She has to be very careful and discreet about dating. If word got out that she was associating with a divorced man, she would have lost her job. She was allowed to date widowers, with or without children. It didn't matter if they were Catholic or not. Both sisters, and my mom who worked in a Catholic school until she retired, had to prove they were practicing Catholics at the beginning of each new school year by getting a letter from their pastor verifying this. Even their minor children had to be certified as "practicing".

A few years back, a friend of mine who is Jewish taught art at a Catholic school. She was hired because of the shortage of art teachers at the time. As soon as they found one who was Catholic, she was let go.

The Church is exempt from most of the FLSA standards.

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Re: Is this job discrimination: religion?

Post by New_Wave_Princess on Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:17 pm

I don't agree with everything the church stands for, but I do think it's often unfairly targeted for something horrifying other ministers do as well (pedophilia). However, what strikes me funny with this is that I've applied at companies run by the Mormons, Nazarene, and Jewish and not one has even asked my religion. Maybe they would have if I got the job who knows, but in particular the Nazarene job was one I regret turning down because it was teaching journalism.

Dating wise I only date never married Catholic men so this hasn't been an issue. My ex (the one I chatted about often who just disappeared) was an Italian Catholic and never married. That's not to say I wouldn't date a man not Catholic, it just hasn't come up lately (and I never date divorced men anyway).

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Re: Is this job discrimination: religion?

Post by lendmeflight2 on Fri Jun 03, 2011 12:16 am

Is it discrimination? Of course it is, but since it's Christianity it's protected.


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Re: Is this job discrimination: religion?

Post by Kulkulkan on Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:04 am

Absolutely discrimination. How does my religious affiliation or lack thereof affect my performance of necessary job functions? One of the thrift shops had ads in the paper requiring one to be Christian, and fail to see how it is any different than requiring applicants to be of a particular ethnicity. If I can tolerate the difference, why can't they? Sure, I could have lied, but would be rightfully fired if found out. Unless my job is to preach their religion, it is complete discrimination.

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Re: Is this job discrimination: religion?

Post by New_Wave_Princess on Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:00 pm

Kulkulkan wrote:Absolutely discrimination. How does my religious affiliation or lack thereof affect my performance of necessary job functions? One of the thrift shops had ads in the paper requiring one to be Christian, and fail to see how it is any different than requiring applicants to be of a particular ethnicity. If I can tolerate the difference, why can't they? Sure, I could have lied, but would be rightfully fired if found out. Unless my job is to preach their religion, it is complete discrimination.

That's why this kind of disturbs me. I have no problems with any religion as long as it doesn't affect me. However this could open the floodgates.

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Re: Is this job discrimination: religion?

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:21 pm

New_Wave_Princess wrote:
Kulkulkan wrote:Absolutely discrimination. How does my religious affiliation or lack thereof affect my performance of necessary job functions? One of the thrift shops had ads in the paper requiring one to be Christian, and fail to see how it is any different than requiring applicants to be of a particular ethnicity. If I can tolerate the difference, why can't they? Sure, I could have lied, but would be rightfully fired if found out. Unless my job is to preach their religion, it is complete discrimination.

That's why this kind of disturbs me. I have no problems with any religion as long as it doesn't affect me. However this could open the floodgates.

It has always been like this. The Church is exempt under the First Amendment and is governed by The Code of Canon Law. Many cases have been brought against the Church, some as far as the Supreme Court. Each time, the Church has prevailed. As long as it doesn't participate in any kind of political activity or lobbying, these statutes and precedents remain in place.

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Re: Is this job discrimination: religion?

Post by New_Wave_Princess on Fri Jun 03, 2011 2:49 pm

Some churches (Not Catholic) do participate in political activities. One of my ex's was involved with a church that would tell people to vote Republican.

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Re: Is this job discrimination: religion?

Post by lendmeflight2 on Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:30 pm

Yes they very much do participate in political activities. In the south Catholicism is not huge but the southern baptist convention takes it's place. I have seen baptist ministers tell their congregations that anyone voting for Obama would go to hell and they always show up at the polling sites and hand out flyers telling their members who to vote for.


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Re: Is this job discrimination: religion?

Post by Guest on Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:42 pm

I was only referring to the Catholic Church, who uses "The Canonical Standards in Labor-Management Relations" as their guidelines for employment.
http://tinyurl.com/454df23

As far as political endorsements:

http://catholicknight.blogspot.com/2008/10/tax-exempt-status-of-catholic-church.html

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Re: Is this job discrimination: religion?

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