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Why employers claim they don't hire younger women

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Why employers claim they don't hire younger women

Post by New_Wave_Princess on Thu May 19, 2011 2:35 am

Even though I am slightly older than this group this is a very sexist article. Basically a sexist CEO says he doesn't like to hire younger women because "they'll just quit to be mothers". I don't know what world he comes from (obviously the 1950's) but most women I've known kept working during their pregnancy, then came back after maternity leave of anything from 2 weeks ro 3 months. The two groups of women I have known who didn't were either women who married wealthy men and they quit to stay at home with their nannies and housekeepers, or the women who went on welfare. Neither women in these groups were by any means overachievers. The first group basically went to college to snag a man who had money (or worked jobs hoping to snag a rich man) and the second group never attended college. Most women I know simply can't afford to stay at home even if they wanted to. I'm sure there are women who don't fit into either of these groups but that's not the point. The point is that it sickens me that people still don't like to hire women because of outdated views. When I was younger I was often asked if I would quit a job ad the answer was always no. I never considered ever quitting a good paying job and most women I knew didn't either.

http://www.vault.com/wps/portal/usa/blogs/entry-detail?blog_id=1462&entry_id=13328

Women, especially younger women, continue to flee finance in record numbers, announced a FINS report earlier this week.

Between 2001 and 2010, the number of women over the age of 55 in finance fields -- everything from trading to retail banking -- rose by 296,000, or 45.2%. This reflects the waves of women who joined the industry 30 years ago and stayed.
However, in the same period, the number of women between the ages of 20 and 34 working in the finance industry actually dropped -- by 394,000, or 20.6%, according to a FINS.com analysis of data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Younger women either left the field or fewer chose to go into the business at all -- or both.
This also happened to be the same decade as when the ranks of young men fell by just 0.9 percent and banks went to unprecedented efforts across the board to attract and retain women.

But according to several women quoted in the report, these numbers are motivated by a difference in persuasions, not the nature of the industry or the vagaries of working in a male-dominated field. Instead, women of the 21st century don’t feel the need to break the boys' club as their predecessors did.

For example, five years ago American Express witnessed a wave of women leaving to have children. Efforts to retain them as part-time employees were rebuffed, says Susan Sobbott, president of OPEN, the company's small-business division.

Sobbott explains: "Two things were happening. They had already made up their minds long before I approached them. And they didn't believe me; they didn't believe they could manage their work and life as a new mother."

Today, Amex is leading the charge for work-life balance and flexible schedules, most recently partnering with the new Center for Work/Life Policy on a new study that offers a new solution to eliminating the continuing gender inequality in the workplace: Sponsorship.

But let's stop there for a second and turn to what Glencore Chairman Simon Murray said in a recent interview with The Sunday Telegraph about the risk of hiring women, especially young women.

Responding to a recent recommendation by the British Parliament to introduce quotas for female representation in British boardrooms, he said as reported by The Guardian:

"Women are quite as intelligent as men. They have a tendency not to be so involved quite often and they're not so ambitious in business as men because they've got better things to do. Quite often they like bringing up their children and all sorts of other things."
"All these things have unintended consequences. Pregnant ladies have nine months off."
"Do you think that means when I rush out, what I'm absolutely desperate to have is young women who are about to get married in my company, and that I really need them on board because I know they're going to get pregnant and they're going to go off for nine months?"
While the phrasing is certainly insensitive, is there any merit to Murray's statement—especially in light of what happened at American Express five years ago?

Clearly, the women who left Amex to have kids were positive that they wouldn’t be able to handle the pressures of work and family. So does that make them poor business investments?

(Note: after being called out for his "primitive, ill-judged and disappointing" comments by former trade minister Lord Mervyn Davies—who authored the report recommending 25 percent female representation on boards—Murray cordially went on to apologize retracting everything he had said.)

For one final perspective, I'll leave you with this comment from one of the women in the FINS piece, talking about the financial industry:

"There is still an old boys' network and if a guy has a choice to help somebody, it's going to be the guy he drinks with and plays golf with."

There may well still be truth in that. But with women actively choosing different paths, how much truth?

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Re: Why employers claim they don't hire younger women

Post by guest on Thu May 19, 2011 8:36 am

This quote still holds true, I've seen it too many times:

"There is still an old boys' network and if a guy has a choice to help somebody, it's going to be the guy he drinks with and plays golf with."


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Re: Why employers claim they don't hire younger women

Post by New_Wave_Princess on Thu May 19, 2011 2:22 pm

aloneinpa wrote:This quote still holds true, I've seen it too many times:

"There is still an old boys' network and if a guy has a choice to help somebody, it's going to be the guy he drinks with and plays golf with."


Very true. The corporate world is very much a old boys network (white boys in particular). I know being a woman I have lost jobs because of it. I've even employers tell me they don't like to hire women because "the last one abruptly quit". I'm sure that happens, but in most situations I know of it didn't happen.

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Re: Why employers claim they don't hire younger women

Post by Kulkulkan on Thu May 19, 2011 2:31 pm

Let's see, they don't like to hire young women, older women, older men, long term unemployed...and they wonder why we can't get jobs? That's a lot of people! Evil or Very Mad

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Re: Why employers claim they don't hire younger women

Post by New_Wave_Princess on Thu May 19, 2011 2:37 pm

Yep, which is why they then hire recent white male grads from money.

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Re: Why employers claim they don't hire younger women

Post by americatheneedy on Thu May 19, 2011 3:59 pm

When I got out of business school, no one would give me a chance to do anything except be the receptionist while I watch a guy I tutored in college get offered asst. manager position.

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Re: Why employers claim they don't hire younger women

Post by americatheneedy on Thu May 19, 2011 4:06 pm

Oh did I mention I talked to the student loan deferment officer and she said she sees tons of female business majors with no offers while the guys did much better. Coincidence??? I think not. Now some of these good 'ol boys are out of work along with us and I have to admit, with few exceptions, I don't feel sorry for them one bit. They didn't care about that when they were busy playing golf and asking me questions on interviews (illegally) about my husband, child care, etc. Later, when I became a military wife no one wanted me because they said I'd move, support the troops my a**!!

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Re: Why employers claim they don't hire younger women

Post by New_Wave_Princess on Thu May 19, 2011 4:26 pm

americatheneedy wrote:Oh did I mention I talked to the student loan deferment officer and she said she sees tons of female business majors with no offers while the guys did much better. Coincidence??? I think not. Now some of these good 'ol boys are out of work along with us and I have to admit, with few exceptions, I don't feel sorry for them one bit. They didn't care about that when they were busy playing golf and asking me questions on interviews (illegally) about my husband, child care, etc. Later, when I became a military wife no one wanted me because they said I'd move, support the troops my a**!!

Americatheneedy I like you (plus I love your avatar which makes me like you even more!). I completely agree with everything you said. I have seen these things happen so much and it bothers me. I know guys with very little experience and GPAs get management jobs while I got offered low level receptionist position. Wal-Mart once offered me a cashier job while they offered a guy friend a management position. I know a guy who got a management position at a public relations firm while he graduated with a 2.3 GPA. I even had the person in charge of the communications department at my grad school tell me I should take a receptionist job because it would help me, but then said she NEVER tells men to take those jobs because "men are leaders". Yeah even women are against other women.

I too have been asked illegal questions about whether I will have kids. I told one employer that even if I had kids I would not quit to stay at home with them. Most of the time I just leave it at that I don't have kids.

I don't know if you caught this, but there was a recent article that stated women right out of college are being offered lower paying jobs than men.

Btw, my brother is in the army (he's a doctor) and I have so much respect for military families. I briefly served in the navy (medical discharge) and have always been pro troops even while not always pro war.

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Re: Why employers claim they don't hire younger women

Post by americatheneedy on Thu May 19, 2011 4:56 pm

New Wave Princess right on!!! Young men are often fast tracked into managment training, even though they may be lower achieving while a women (unless she benefits from some diversity program which I know I never did), have to work just to have a chance to even work their way up to where their male peer started. I saw it when my nephew and I went into the job market, same age, no kids, I had better gpa but I got offered a waitress job while he got offered asst. manager. (same restaurant) I've seen it with my OWN eyes when repeatedly. That was when I was young and pretty, now that I am older and fatter, I feel like there is no way to get a break. I know many men are struggling too in this economy and I know there are exceptions to every rule, but this was MY experience when I graduated college. It made me not want to help male classmates because I felt like why should I be helping my future boss??? I don't play golf, hang out at the strip club, or slap my coworkers on the back, so I guess I am just screwed. I have just resigned myself to the fact that my education was wasted time and money and have decided to try to survive. I also know that if and when jobs come back, the good 'ol boys will be at it again. Oh and I'm not some hot little blond, so if they do hire women well you know what they'll look like-blond, skinny. Just look at the female newscasters on Fox (not Greta Van Susteren) count the hot chicks, I don't know what you look like, but I am an attractive 38 year old female who is not soaked in makeup or bleach and I will not change that for a job. I don't want to step on toes, but if the men on this site will be honest about conversations they've surely overheard at work or elsewhere, they'll have to admit that this does have merit. Is every man I've ever known hire this way-no, I know some straight shooting no nonsense guys who are great human beings and bosses, but If anyone tries to deny the power of the man's club or the existence of the man cave-I'd laugh in their face. Men are simply NOT going to set females up to become the boss of other men.

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Re: Why employers claim they don't hire younger women

Post by New_Wave_Princess on Thu May 19, 2011 5:17 pm

I am 40 but still look good for me my age, so that's one thing I have going. However, I am not the 22 year old I was so my age will hurt me in this respect. I am not a petite blonde either (I am a muscular brunette and heightwise can't be considered petite) and I have seen many places hire the tiny blondes. I have seen this sexism and it does bother me, especially once a guy goes up the management ladder.

I was once in the elevator with a few of the upper managerment at my former employer and I heard one talk about his "proper wife" who stayed at home. Of course they had money but to him all women stayed at home and I've seen this attitude with upper management. This is partly why I don't date men in upper management (I seem to prefer blue collar men) because this attitude is so prevailing.

Everytime I meet a guy and he makes any form of sexist comment I cringe. Even something as simple as "I don't know how to cook so my wife will have to learn" bothers me because it's a very traditional view. I got into it with a relative who insisted all women love bridal and baby showers because it's a way to "bond" with other women. I actually told him I hate these and never attend traditional ones and if I marry or have a baby I will have a coed party instead. I will also not marry or have a baby unless it's with a guy who believes in equality.

People often say to me that simple comments like cooking or showers is no big deal but it really is. As long as we have rigid gender roles it hurts all of us. I'm certainly not saying not to enjoy a particular gender role. I just don't want gender roles I don't agree with pushed on me.

One of the reasons I lost my last job was because I found out I was paid less than my male coworkers. I questioned this and they kept hemming and hawing. Then I found out a guy who started the same day (recent grad) got promoted THREE times while I stayed at the same job. In addition, even though I was more educated than my coworkers I was expected to assist them in their job. I have a masters and most of them only had a high school diploma.

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Re: Why employers claim they don't hire younger women

Post by admin911 on Mon May 23, 2011 11:22 pm

i would have to say i disagree with some of this. i work in IT and i have seen pretty woman get just about any job they want. I currently have a female team lead that knows very little about computers or programming. she was hired because of her looks and wardrobe. previous job i had was in construction sales, and a girl i worked with could sell just about anything she wanted to contractors with just a few words and very little knowledge. just shows how easy you can manipulate people with good looks

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Re: Why employers claim they don't hire younger women

Post by New_Wave_Princess on Mon May 23, 2011 11:43 pm

admin911 wrote:i would have to say i disagree with some of this. i work in IT and i have seen pretty woman get just about any job they want. I currently have a female team lead that knows very little about computers or programming. she was hired because of her looks and wardrobe. previous job i had was in construction sales, and a girl i worked with could sell just about anything she wanted to contractors with just a few words and very little knowledge. just shows how easy you can manipulate people with good looks

I used to have this happen but not so sure it holds up in the fields I interview for. I am a former model and am still attractive at 40 but a judged by my masters.

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Re: Why employers claim they don't hire younger women

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