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Wisconsin: Protesters Ranks Swell to 85,000-100,000

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Wisconsin: Protesters Ranks Swell to 85,000-100,000

Post by Guest on Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:37 pm

First topic message reminder :

http://www.truth-out.org/wisconsin-the-first-stop-an-american-uprising67915

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Re: Wisconsin: Protesters Ranks Swell to 85,000-100,000

Post by Guest on Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:04 pm

It's getting worse. Apparently, while the bill hasn't been passed yet, or signed into law, Lisa Fitzgerald, the wife and schoolteacher of the Wisconsin Republican Majority Leader, has received a termination notice. Apparently these notices have gone out in advance of the bill's passage:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/02/24/lisa-fitzgerald-wife-of-w_n_827741.html

I wonder what Republicans are saying now, since their own family members are starting to receive termination notices. Maybe this will convince them to back off on this anti-Union bill.

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Re: Wisconsin: Protesters Ranks Swell to 85,000-100,000

Post by Injeun on Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:10 pm

Tyrants are falling. Bye bye union.

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Re: Wisconsin: Protesters Ranks Swell to 85,000-100,000

Post by tristen303 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:47 pm

I do not see that the majority of Americans are standing in soldiarity with the State workers if they do not then the Repub will have the wind at their backs.

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Re: Wisconsin: Protesters Ranks Swell to 85,000-100,000

Post by lendmeflight2 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:49 pm

The last I heard 61% of the American public were with them. That is a majority, even in the senate. If the public weren't with the protesters all the other republican governors wouldn't be back pedaling like they are.

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Re: Wisconsin: Protesters Ranks Swell to 85,000-100,000

Post by Guest on Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:59 pm

There is actual support for the Wisconsin workers and there is a very good reason why.

The American people hate the "Unions" with a passion but the one thing they can agree on is that the unions do serve one useful purpose, they fight for worker's rights. The problem is that Republicans in Wisconsin didn't think this through and when they proceeded with this so-called plan to push this bill through, they did it in such a hap-hazard way that they actually forced Americans to side with the public workers.

I've always said that if you have a cause that you believe in, a reason for why you're fighting, you need support from a large group of people and get them to rally to your cause. However, when you attack basic foundations of worker's rights, you attack every worker's rights and they will rally around each other to fight a common enemy.

The dissolution of collective bargaining agreements, banning workers from striking just so they can get a pay raise, the GOP in Wisconsin only have themselves to blame because they didn't think this through when they decided to push this bill through.

Collective bargaining, banning public worker strikes ... these are things that the GOP should have tackled at a later date. Instead, they threw everything into the same bill and their efforts backfired. Now, they have multiple states, they have workers from every industry and they even have American voters are standing beside them and rallying for their cause.

It's pure American Grassroots and Republicans have become their arch enemy.

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Re: Wisconsin: Protesters Ranks Swell to 85,000-100,000

Post by tristen303 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:07 pm

Theyre not back peddling and the poll of 61% was regarding if people wanted a law like that actually the vote in Wisc. is split http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/02/24/us-wisconsin-protests-poll-idUSTRE71N73M20110224 the poll prior to that had the workers with a small majority which means that the trend if continued is working against them.

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Re: Wisconsin: Protesters Ranks Swell to 85,000-100,000

Post by lendmeflight2 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:10 pm

I guess it depends on how you interpret things. 61% they didn't want a law like that in their state, to me that is support. I guess that isn't support to you.


The governor of Ohio, Indiana, and even Christie of New Jersey came out today saying they were "open to collective bargaining".

That is back pedaling.


the link you posted said that the people of Wisconsin think that the union workers should pay more for benefits. The public sector workers agreed to this but the Governor insisted on ending their union forever. The same article states that most people in Wisconsin DO NOT favor ending the union. So, on the main topic of contention, the public workers, the state of wisconsin, AND the nation as a whole seem to agree.

That is solidarity.

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Re: Wisconsin: Protesters Ranks Swell to 85,000-100,000

Post by tristen303 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:18 pm

Im talking about Wisc not the country and the Governers you cited were never against collective bargaining and this is a state by state case nto a repub platform yet. When the Repubs in Wisc cave that would be back peddling. The others (like me) just don't agree. Heres another poll http://www.franklincenterhq.org/2200/poll-shows-71-of-wisconsinites-think-walker%E2%80%99s-budget-changes-are-%E2%80%9Cfair%E2%80%9D/ my point is that before we start slapping oursleves on our backs about who supports us and who doesn't were getting ahead of ourselves we should look beyond the polls that support our side and views and look to others since it seems that everyone gets all excited only to be let down when the facts come out and everyone is scracthing their heads saying but the polls show we had support. Also for you lendme look in Inc magazine they had a great article on socialism and Norway and taxes very compelling.

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Re: Wisconsin: Protesters Ranks Swell to 85,000-100,000

Post by Guest on Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:20 pm

I don't think anyone is in disagreement that public workers who are unionized should pay more for their benefits they receive, especially in light of our current economy. The contention is that Governor Walker is using this as an excuse to also strip away collective bargaining and ban these workers from going on strike in order to get a pay raise.

Basically, he wants to strip all public workers of their rights. This is hilarious since Republicans have never been in favor of unions, anyway.

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Re: Wisconsin: Protesters Ranks Swell to 85,000-100,000

Post by tristen303 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:24 pm

i was under the impression that he wants no collective bargining for benefits not outlawing unions or their ability to orgainze but merely that collectively they could not dictate a variety of topics to the State. As that they are the states only option they have a monoply on things I find nothing wrong with limiting their ability to dictate policy through bargining as that they are not elected to do so. Where all this talk of outlawing Unions is coming is just spin.

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Re: Wisconsin: Protesters Ranks Swell to 85,000-100,000

Post by Guest on Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:27 pm

That may be but the bill contains language for eliminating collective bargaining as well as banning every public workers from going on strike as a means of demanding a pay increase or increase in medical benefits, retirement benefits or vacation pay.

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Re: Wisconsin: Protesters Ranks Swell to 85,000-100,000

Post by lendmeflight2 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:35 pm

I am not sure what your point about socialism has to do with the topic. It is obvious that more socialism in your nation means more taxes. The difference is that the tax money would actually make a difference in the lives of the working class. I will read it though.


The thing is that it does seem to be a republican platform, ending the unions. Not the old Eisenhower republican party but it definitely is today.


Do you actually read these articles you link too? They prove my point not yours. 71% want to balance the budget and want public workers to pay more health care.

However, 56% say that public unions should have collective bargaining and 36% say they shouldn't.

39% find Walkers efforts to balance the budget very favorable. 36% find it very unfavorable. It's almost the same

When asked how Wisconsinites view the protesters, 36% viewed them very favorably, 30% viewed them very unfavorably.

When asked if they should have collective bargaining power 56% said they should and only 26% said no.

When asked if teachers who call in sick to protest should be fired. 53% said no and 32% said yes.

This is all from the article you posted.

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Re: Wisconsin: Protesters Ranks Swell to 85,000-100,000

Post by tristen303 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:40 pm

Yes thats why I posted it Im not arguing with you just showing that there is a split and when drilled down it shows where and with what (not to mention that the previous poll shows it trending in the wrong direction). As for the article that was just from a discussion sometime ago I thought you would like nothing to do with here. The point is I can only employ you and nobody else and you decide to not work, or you decide you want this or that or to dictate policy to me I have no options but to honor your requests. Bargining means both parties get a say not one. That only happens when both parties are dealing from equal positions the Public sector Unions in Wisc have positioned themselves into such a strong element that in order to rectify that misapplication of bargining rights they chairs must be put at the same level (whether this is the way to do it remains to be seen). A state shouldn't be held hostage to the wants and desires of its employees anymore than an employee should be held hostage to an employer. Thats why right to work states do so well and why the rust belt is dying. I think the bigger question for me as a Repub is I thought they got voted in to create jobs not add to UE lines but nobody seems to be worrying about that just wether some Union can force the state to its desires; clearly they are part of the states woes and must be addressed in some manner.

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Re: Wisconsin: Protesters Ranks Swell to 85,000-100,000

Post by tristen303 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:49 pm

This is the split

39% find Walkers efforts to balance the budget very favorable. 36% find it very unfavorable. It's almost the same

That's the key before he it was almost reverse now leave all the other stuff out and this is it in the end hes balancing the budget by doing what? Elimanting collective bargining rights. Now on a question to question basis the above is what people said to your point but in the end they are split on doing it (his budget plan) that plan is what started all this and it is trending more favorably I put the poll questions in to reflect this that in the end there split on it. Wether they like Unions support collective bargining or whatever doesn't matter if they support his budget plan becasue supporting it would by showing the opposite of what the complete poll showed.

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Re: Wisconsin: Protesters Ranks Swell to 85,000-100,000

Post by lendmeflight2 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:57 pm

I did read the article. It was very interesting. I apologize for getting defensive. I flew off the handle.


I am at a loss as to how balancing the budget requires eliminating the unions. If there is a budget crisis, which I doubt, why can't they stop bargaining rights temporarily instead of forever. He wants to fix a temporary problem with a permanent solution. This makes me think that his underlying aim is just to eliminate workers rights. He basically admitted this in his famous phone conversation from yesterday.

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Re: Wisconsin: Protesters Ranks Swell to 85,000-100,000

Post by tristen303 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:07 pm

Agreed temp. I don't like this anymore then you and my concern is that this will get elevated to where you will be right which then will leave me with no party.

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Re: Wisconsin: Protesters Ranks Swell to 85,000-100,000

Post by Guest on Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:09 pm

I think everyone agrees with him on how he's going to balance the budget. The contention is the way he's handling these public workers. These workers have agreed to help pay for their benefits under Walker's plan. I think the major contention is that he wants the added condition to strip these workers of the rights under unionized labor.

Basically, he wants to eliminate the rights of these workers to band together and bargain as a group in order to get better benefits, pay and whatnot. This actually, has nothing to do with the budget, which is why everyone is so upset over his plan to eliminate the unions, by removing their "collective bargaining rights" and to ban these workers from going on strike.

This means that if this bill passes, as is, these public workers would not have any collective bargaining rights and they would not be allowed to strike. This would be enforced as a law. It effectively guarantees that public workers could not go on strike in order to get better pay or better benefits.

It would the same as walking in your employers office and asking for a pay raise. Your boss says no and you go back to work. Under the law, you wouldn't even be able to go on strike in order to get better pay, a right that many Americans, in our country enjoy.

Doctors, nurses, bus drivers, factory workers, retail employees ... these workers usually authorize a strike under protection of their union, in order to get better pay, better benefits and improved working conditions. These Wisconsin public workers would not have any recourse to get anything if this bill passes. It's funny because state lawmakers and U.S. Congress lawmakers vote for pay raises every year BUT they want to strip those same rights from public workers.

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Re: Wisconsin: Protesters Ranks Swell to 85,000-100,000

Post by lendmeflight2 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:16 pm

Plus at the same time, right to work states do not do very well either. I live in a right to work state which outlaws collective bargaining for public workers. I don't know anyone that is in a union period. My state is running a 40% deficit right now. So it doesn't seem like unionizing actually causes the problems. A lot of people are saying that the only reason there is a shortfall at all is because Walker gave the money away to big business.

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Re: Wisconsin: Protesters Ranks Swell to 85,000-100,000

Post by mistermunster on Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:18 pm

kemcha wrote:It's funny because state lawmakers and U.S. Congress lawmakers vote for pay raises every year BUT they want to strip those same rights from public workers.

Yeah, and lots of people think thats OK, but giving the American workers RIGHTS and decent pay is something next to COMMUNISM in their eyes. I get tire of hearing if "workers" demand rights or UNION it's SOCIALISM. This is the plot of the rich elite to keep us all down and at the tyranny and slavery of employers and the corporate beast. Yet so many are SO blind to the reality. Thats why things can't change, as long as they demonize Unions and Workers rights as something BAD, IT WILL CONTINUE TO BE AN UPHILL BATTLE.

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Re: Wisconsin: Protesters Ranks Swell to 85,000-100,000

Post by Guest on Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:40 pm

Tell me about it, mistermunster. But, if this bill passes, then everybody had better go and hide in the hills because if states can pass bills restricting the rights of public workers, then, guess who they're going to go after next?

Once public workers lose their rights, they will target unions in other industries because the GOP are going to want to protect big business and look at unions as prohibiting job growth.

If this bill passes, you can bet that it's going to have repercussions from the East Coast to the West Coast.

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Re: Wisconsin: Protesters Ranks Swell to 85,000-100,000

Post by tristen303 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:43 pm

Amen and then wheres it go from there? Thats scary

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Re: Wisconsin: Protesters Ranks Swell to 85,000-100,000

Post by mistermunster on Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:47 pm

kemcha wrote:
If this bill passes, you can bet that it's going to have repercussions from the East Coast to the West Coast.

I think they call it revolution, And I'm all for that. This is OUR country and we suppose to HAVE these fools represent OUR VOICE in DC. They have done NOTHING but serve their own GREED with OUR money that they HAVE taken from us illegally and SPENT it on ILLEGAL activities all in the name of National Security. I think enough, is enough. Don't you think?

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Re: Wisconsin: Protesters Ranks Swell to 85,000-100,000

Post by tristen303 on Thu Feb 24, 2011 11:54 pm

I certainly think the tone needs to be changed since hte present one isn't working

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Re: Wisconsin: Protesters Ranks Swell to 85,000-100,000

Post by Guest on Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:05 am

The one thing that Wisconsin needs is an independent mediator or a court appointed arbiter because this has really gotten out of hand. If ever we needed the court system to step in and protect our country, you would think that the situation that began in Wisconsin and is now infesting our country, one state at a time, that the Federal courts need to step in and declare an impasse, halt the activities of the Republican lawmakers by placing a temporary restraining order on the Republican Party in Wisconsin from proceeding any further, until a mediator can bring both sides together and work out a compromise.

It's obvious that the current structure of the Wisconsin government isn't resolving any problems ...

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Re: Wisconsin: Protesters Ranks Swell to 85,000-100,000

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:53 pm

One of my reps in mass drafted a bill similar to, and before the governer of wisconsin that I never even knew about until now...
http://www.thesunchronicle.com/articles/2011/02/26/news/8913094.txt

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Re: Wisconsin: Protesters Ranks Swell to 85,000-100,000

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